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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2016 23:52
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So I was looking at the Oregon Well Log for my area and specifically the street. YAY! Very consistent. First water encountered at 40 feet. Well completed at 123 feet. Hot-diggity!
I'm going to be living on my land for probably 2 months in the RV until my cabin is done. I really don't fancy hauling water in for that amount of time and I need to get the well in anyway. Here's my question:
Is it possible to have the well drilled and then put a manual hand (bucket) pump on it now so I have access to the water? And is it possible to keep the hand pump on it even when we do the electric pump and hook up to the cabin, in case of power failure? I think a hand pump is a good idea as a backup, maybe.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 08:18 - Edited by: Steve_S
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I looked into a pump that could do that, there are many solutions and I found this one http://www.simplepump.com/index.html but it gave me a bit of "sticker shock" then I found http://bisonpumps.com/deep-well-hand-pump/ which also looked perfect but still a tad stiff for me at this time too.
As I have my electric deep well pump in already I'm OK so this is something on my don the road plans, as I have higher priorities 1st.
Both of these (and several others out there) coexist with the electric pump... COMMON POINT TO NOTE: All the ones which will allow for both the Hand & Electric pumps need a 6" Well Casing from what I can see.
Are you intending to build a small "Pump House" over your well head ?
I would strongly recommend that when looking for your well driller, try to find one that uses a Cable Pounding drill versus a Bore Drill. Cable pounder will fracture the rock as it drill's resulting in better water flow rates at shallower levels. Bore does not shatter / fracture rock so you have to go deeper (typically 10-15% pending on rock type) to get similar flow. The driller's charge by the foot !
When I had my well drilled in 2014 (cable pounder), it cost
- $35 per foot and
- $10 per foot of 6" Casing,
- $1200 Well seal & packing was $1200.
The casing has to go 8' deep into the rock and has to stick up 24" above grade per our reg's.
added ps: In my case we drilled into granite and this is what is required for my well, this can vary depending on soil & bedrock and the local regulations. Casing can be quite a variable when estimating.
None ever told me what their well's cost to drill which really irritated me as I was trying to figure a budget and that gave me nightmares... water is life, so a wee bit important. Seems to be pretty variable though.
Hope it helps Julie 
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Just
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 09:38
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you need to know the static level (level of the water in the finshed well) to predict what pumps are needed . Above 20 feet no problem for 2 pumps below 20 problem.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 12:23 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Is it possible to have the well drilled and then put a manual hand (bucket) pump on it now so I have access to the water? And is it possible to keep the hand pump on it even when we do the electric pump and hook up to the cabin, in case of power failure? I think a hand pump is a good idea as a backup, maybe.
Julie, hand pump is spendy, in the thousands of dollars. The hand pump doesn't pull the water up to it, it has stainless rod sections going clean down to the bottom, so the pump mechanism is at the bottom of the well (you are pushing water up, not pulling it), so if your well is 150 feet deep, the pump wil be down 120 feet or so, them moving a 1" column of water 120 feet is hard (very high effort on your end, even with the longer pump handle), plus you need to run the well a lot to clear it. You can set the pump up now, just hook power right to it, ie like a generator, no pressure vessels, just an open end, no shut off spicket (plumbers call it a hose bib). Just like my livestock solar well.
Hook hose up, stick in storage tank, start generator.
But another option, you can have a pump and pressure tank all inside the well, this is perfect for keeping it from freezing. Otherwise, you will need a underground vault for this equipment. You will want a pit-less adapter. Hook to a frost free hydrant to use when filling RV. This is something you will need when you take up residency anyway, then its just a matter of hooking up power. When cabin is in. "T" of from hydrant to cabin, all done.
You will need your final pump in place, so decide if you want a 110VAC, 220VAC or even solar powered. If you have power to the place, do 220VAC, but you will need a bigger generator (one with a 220VAC plug to) You can get a decent priced one for under $600 for just temp use on gettign water. If the power pole is already in place, no generator needed, just temp wite it to service panel) The good part is, you need all this gear anyway, so if you go hand pump, you would spend lots of $$$ pump plus install and have to remove it and then add electric pump, lots more labor and more in equipment you will take out. Those little hand pumps you see at flea markets is only for looks or very shallow wells. (like under 20 feet)
Julie, if you have power to your place, get the well trimmed out with a 220VAC pump (preferably the 5 wire pump vs 2 wire) and have the pressure vessel inside the well casing, to a pit-less adapter (this is where the water exits the well casing 4 feet underground, not out the top) to a frost-less hydrant. So all you will see it the well head with the cap on it and a power wire in conduit coming from it to the panel and some feet away from it, a hydrant. When I say hydrant, I mean one of these in the picture below. Get the right one for your frost depth.
Then when cabin is done, "T" off of it and run to the cabin, leaving this in place for watering garden, washing car etc.
Is your well drilled already? This is big money. Expect to spend between 10K-15K for a well, trimmed out and ready for habitation. These numbers are based on average depth you mentioned, could be more. I have a simple solar well, 178 feet deep, in mine 12K. This is a 6" well casing.
Also, know what well flows. That will all be in the drillers report. It will break it down from soil types ran into, how many GPM. Mine flowed at 15 gallons a minute, so I did buy a 220VAC 5 wire pump to rated at 10 gallons per minute. (I have this still in the box as running solar well now). My static water level was right at 100 feet, I put the pump down into the water 30 feet from the bottom. 50 feet under water. 6" well casing, should never run dry.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 14:44
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Julie- I think with a high water level a hand pump would be very easy to pump. But I agree that the best way to deal with power outages is with a generator, which you want anyway for power in the cabin.
As Toyota said, flow rate of the well is very important, so I suggest that you be there when the driller is drilling to decide if you want to go deeper once they have achieved a certain flow rate. So say they drill 120 feet and there is 80 feet of water in the hole, but the well only produces water at 5 gallons per minute. If you put in a 10 gallon per minute pump, you will pump it dry. At a minimum a residential well should produce 10 gpm, but more is better. So you could tell the driller "keep drilling until you get 15 gallons per minute", but it's best to be there when it is happening, and decide when and where to stop drilling.
My well was producing 10 gpm at 360 feet, I told them drill 20 more feet, and the rate jumped to 30 gpm by luck.
You can't drill it deeper later.
PVC casing is cheaper, I went with steel because of the chemicals in pvc.
Good luck! Sounds like you will have no trouble getting a good well.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 16:18
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Steve_S
Yes, that helps a lot! There are a few highly recommended well drillers in the area and one who's most often used among those. I noticed his name on the well logs more frequently. He quoted an acquaintance $12,500 for a 300-foot deep well and her land is on a mountain with a lot of rock. So, I'm figuring that mine will cost in the neighborhood of $4,500 and I had expected about $5K. It may be less because my area is known for a high water table and fantastic wells whereas hers isn't.
Yeah, I'm planning on a little pump house. Thanks for the drilling insight! I will definitely ask about that, and how much rock lies beneath!
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 16:21
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Just
Can you estimate where the static water level is usually? How does that work? Unfortunately, the state well logs don't list it so I haven't any way of knowing or comparing. 
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 16:48
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I could not gess my deepest is 120 ft and i have one that comes to 7 ft from top . I would call a neighbor and ask about their well .
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 16:53
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toyota_mdt_tech
Yikes! It seems like I'm complicating matters!
There's power in the area/lines right on the road in front of my land but I wasn't going to hook up until the cabin is built. I didn't think I could hook up to a temporary dwelling like an RV or a shabin. Can I?
Lehman's sells several deep well hand pumps for about $700. I don't know how good they are.
Here's what I'm musing. Gah, is Oregon hopping busy when it comes to building ANYTHING and real estate-related things. I'm trying to plan for the possibility -- perhaps eventuality -- that the 5 weeks the modular people told me it would take to build the cabin could turn into a couple of months. And that we're going to be scrambling at that point to do concrete work.
I could very well end up wintering on my land in temporary housing, which is why I'm now looking at purchasing a 10 X 16 barn style shabin (that has a 60 lb. snow load and meets IBC) rather than doing the RV thing. If we get the cabin built before winter, YAY! I have a storage building/guest cottage. If we don't, I'll winter safely.
But I will need water. I can fold land prep such as clearing, well, electric hookup, and septic into my construction loan. But if I can pay to do the basic well now and top it off with a hand pump so I have access now, then we can just fold the electric pump, pressure tank, and connection to the cabin into the loan instead of the whole thing. And I'll have my water, in the meantime. Does that make sense?
I'd be totally interested in a solar pump, Toyota!!! Would that solve the problem and allow me access to my water in a temporary shabin? How is it working out for you?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:02 - Edited by: Steve_S
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Julie, I had a GrundFos SQ5 120 Volt soft start deep well pump installed which is ideal for Solar Systems as due to the soft start up that doesn't HIT when it starts... Apparently this also leads to a longer life but I don't know if that is true or not but my pump guy said it so...
My pump house (14'x6') is 45' from Cabin and I ran my water & power from there to my cabin underground. It also houses my solar controller, batteries on one side with my well head & 44 gal. Pressure Tank. Because I'm in NE Ontario, I have a small Propane RV heater in there that keeps it at 45F through winter which runs minimally as the building is super insulated, no windows or anything to lose heat. Nice part is, it also stays at least 5C / 9F below exterior temp in summer on it's own.
I decided on Grundfos because it's a high end product with excellent reputation for a very long time and water has to be dependable. Here is info on the SQ Series, they also have an SQ-Flex Series which is a complete Solar Solution.
http://www.grundfos.com/products/find-product/sq.html
http://www.grundfos.com/products/find-product/sqflex.html#overview
PS if you have Power at the driveway & intend to have it brought in, you can erect a "Service Post" or "Temporary Pole Service" to provide power to the construction site & site office, assuming your temp trailer will be considered "site office" ;) Ten it just get's reconnected to the cabin...
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:04
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bldginsp
Good point. I should look into the state minimum for the flow rate. According to the well logs in my area, they were getting 20 gpm at 123 feet so it should be all good unless the state requires more than that.
Oh, I'll be there watching and asking questions. With bells on, hahahaha! It's funny, though. Whenever you say the name of my area to building and planning people, one of the first things they mention is it's a great place for wells. And that's one of the reasons I was keen on buying land there, after the stunning beauty, of course.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:07
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Quoting: Just I could not gess my deepest is 120 ft and i have one that comes to 7 ft from top . I would call a neighbor and ask about their well .
You know, Just, you raise an interesting point. If the cost isn't prohibitive, I could probably do a shallow artesian well with a hand pump installed for now and for emergencies later and then have the main deep well drilled for the cabin separately. I wonder if that's allowed?
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bushbunkie
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:21
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Hi Julie,
We have a drilled well with a hand pump attached to the top of the pipe with a few clamps. Hand pump cost me 60 bucks and it is attached to the plastic pipe that goes down the well (drilled at 120ft, but water is prop 20 - 30 ft down). Have a valve at the end of the pipe to keep the prime...works great for us.
my son pumping it after we replaced the leather gasket
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:23
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What do y'all think of this one?
https://www.amazon.com/Handy-Well-Pump-Stainless-Permanent/dp/B00KMD1AL8/ref=sr_1_2?i e=UTF8&qid=1473110291&sr=8-2&keywords=Deep+Well+Hand+Pump
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:25
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bushbunkie
That's awesome! How does it do in the winter/colder temps? Gosh, that water looks so clean and pure!
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 17:29
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Garys and Cabies well is 40 feet IThink and has a 100$ pump wait to worry call a neighbor and ask.Where i come from a well that produces 1 gal. per .min. is consiered enough to run a home for 2
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 18:20
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I agree, Just. I'm trying to set up appointments before I get there so I can hit the ground running and don't lose time on my travel days. I haven't met the neighbors yet, if there are any full-timers around me. It's a popular area for seasonal cabins/homes and the season is nearing its end.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 18:40 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Julie, I suspect you will need power anyway when you live there. Knowing now about your scenario, here is what I would do. First, find the location you want your house. Keep in mind, septic and drain field, ideally, a downhill flow for septic to avoid a pump system, but a pump system with surge tank may be required now (health dept will let you know) Depends on how rural. Ok, your little modular will need power and they usually have a panel mounted on a post with service enough for the modular. So my suggestion would be bring in your service panel, then the modular will jump off of it. Also, will have 4 spaces in it, you could use this space in the panel to run power to the well pump. Keep in mind, the well needs to be 100 feet from anything else, ie home, septic etc. So lay it out accordingly. You could also add an outlet on the panel so the contractors have power. Normally, building a home, a temp panel is installed for power for contractors, then removed and attached to the house for final elec inspection. On a mfg home, it will remain in place and separate from the home, so once in, it can remain where it is. The home is mobile, so its set up to always be able to move, even if it never does again. Then you can trim out your well. Some mention well house. How cold does it get? A well house well insulated and heated is fine, but will power go out? And if it does in a cold winter, everything will freeze and split. In real cold areas, typical is pressure tank in the well or an underground vault (vault can be several concrete tiles stacked and a manhole cover, its underground). The water line from the well exits via the pitless (side of well casing 4 feet underground) adapter and goes to the vault unless you contain the pressure tank inside the well. No building over the well at all. Just a power wire to supply the pump.
The driller will give you the full report. I guess 10GPM is rock bottom minimum and during dry summers, can drop off. So shoot for 15gpm or better.
My solar well works great, I do have a transformer in times of low sunlight or at night where I can power the well via a transformer plugged into my little Honda EU2000i. But its a livestock well, it just trickles out at 2.8 gallons a minute. That wouldn't be suitable for your cabin. Be OK to fill a holding tank, but modulars dont have a holding tank like a camp trailer and adding one is a whole other thread. But it would work to get jugs of water for your daily needs. But cost can be high. I paid 2100 for my complete solar set up plus the hardware to wire it up. Its just a stub pipe I plug into the well head, main it into water container, then I flip a switch and wait at 2.8 gallons a minute.
They do make full solar or low voltage well systems for homes. But the low voltage stuff can be spendy.
Julie, what is your elevation and are you on the west side of the cascades or east side (from the summit) I ask because east is usually going to be colder in winter.
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bushbunkie
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 18:57
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Hi Julie,
Thanks...We're just seasonal cabin dwellers at this point, don't use it in the winter...yes the water is awesome. For something long term, you'll definitely need a pump system in place.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2016 22:39
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For your electrical service, you should be able to mount it on a pole or other separate structure like two posts next to each other. Then you could use the service to power rv, modular, pump, and house. You would have to run underground conduit to each. There will be two sets of rules governing location and setup of the service, the building department and the utility. Make sure you know what both require.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 00:51
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Cool!!! Thanks, guys! That would be awesome to get the electric in! I thought I couldn't do that before the cabin was in -- or that it would be something mega-temporary and have to be totally redone. This is great news! I'll set up an appointment with Pacific Power to come out!
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 01:13
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Regarding setback requirements, I hope I'm reading the regs right. It says the well needs to be a minimum of 50 feet from the septic tank, 100 feet from the drain field, and 5 feet from buildings.
My property consists of 2 side-by-side lots and the property measures about 200 feet wide by 150 feet deep. The test pits and soil testing were done on the right hand lot, so I'm putting the septic system on that lot, with the septic tank in the center and the drain field in the back.
The cabin will go almost in the middle of the property, pretty much on the boundary of the two lots, and then the well will be on the left hand lot. That should meet all of the setback requirements. I think?
toyota_mdt_tech
I'm in the Southern Cascades. It's not really a matter of east or west of them but if I had to pick, maybe slightly east? I'm in sight of Mt. McLoughlin which is in the Cascades. Mt. Ashland is southwest. I believe my elevation is about 4300.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 08:47
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Sounds like you have a handle on it Julie and a bit of checking to do. Your setback requirements are similar to mine, which is great as you don't have huge hoops to deal with.
Lot's of great info here but I should say, whatever you do, is keep it as simple as possible and do plan for a backup option.
I, by default, always have 3 backups for everything critical but that is just years of training & conditioning. All good as it has never let me down. Even my pump house has 3 heat sources ! and ALL different and none requiring more than 12V power (even the little RV Furnace). Imagine how I would react waking up to a frozen pump house... Drunken Sailor Talk would be outrageous and I like to avoid that whenever possible.
Just relax, one step at a time, one accomplishment at a time and you'll be surprised how fast things happen when things are taken in stride. Rushing leads to mistakes which are best avoided.
In Any CASE... A Big Virtual Happy Hug to set your day off on the right footing.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 16:53
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Thank you, Steve_S!
I, too, like having backups to my backups. I tend to overthink things which drives a lot of people crazy, as is my tendency to assemble a lot of info, read, and then whittle. But I was a journalist and then a researcher in grad school so it's my method, my training.
I absolutely agree about rushing. It works for a lot of folks but not for me. It makes me spin in circles, hahahaha!
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 17:39
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon It makes me spin in circles, hahahaha!
LOL... Made myself pass out a couple of times too... hehehe
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PatrickH
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 17:39
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You could also use one of these if your ableURL
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2016 20:20
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PatrickH
Whoa, that's really cool! Thanks for linking! I missed it on their site!
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2016 09:54
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Are you sure you can put the cabin on the property line?
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2016 17:05
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Well, Well, if you are going to do a "well bucket" then you need that $ 70 "well wheel" to go with it. Dang, that brings back childhood memories. And you will need to build the classic turn handle to wind the rope upon as you "extract" your bucket.
I would forgo all this and set my electric service the same day as i put up the mail box, which would be the afternoon of the 15th for both of these item. I have done quite a bit of RVing, both with electrical service and without. Life is a lot more fun (read "pleasant") when all you do is "flip the switch". You will save nothing in the end by doing the electrical now, except a lot of headache and it would leave a lot more time to do those other duties that really need to be preformed.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2016 17:08
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Quoting: bldginsp Are you sure you can put the cabin on the property line?
Well, goll dang ya there partner, ifin ya don;t believe I can put da cabin on da property line, why not just hide over younder in the bushes and watch for a little while while we lay out da dang founded nation and put up a few of dem wood poles.
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