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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / Lumber prices have spiked!
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gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 16:42
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My house was built in the 1880's and I have extensively maintained and remodeled some.
Some nails have required drilling guide holes.
My first cabin was hand built with mostly wood from an 1897 barn I salvaged.
So, yeah, btdt.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 17:12
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Quoting: snobdds
Have you ever tried to drive a nail through a old board?


Almost exclusively! These 20' 2x12s came out of an old church. I think I got 30 of them, for $400. Even at the price a year ago for new it was a big savings. I used Simpson joist screws instead of nails, only a couple splits. Damn glad I don't have to buy them now!

Buy yeah, when I do get to work with new lumber it's a dream.
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snobdds
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 10:33
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If you work with old hard lumber, then you would know, it's only worth it if you put no value on your time.

By the time you do all the things required to take down a building to recycle the lumber and get it ready to be used again...it's probably a wash to what lumber costs now. Plus all the struggles and frustration to work with old lumber, just not worth it.

Like the old saying goes, it's too expensive to be cheap.

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 11:04
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Money spent is, well, spent.
On the buildings Ive salvaged I had the time so it was productive work for me, and a means to and end.
Now if I had to take off time from a money paying job, without pay, to do it that time would have cost me money.
Or, if at those times I had found a part-time job to make a wage, pay taxes and buy lumber at market price I 'might' have broke even??? Too much calc.
Did what I did with no regrets and dont mind if others do it differently.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 11:14
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The only value I put on my time at the property is the time I could be doing something else on the property. It's a place I want to be, doing what I want to do. In my life I have worked for others, run my own business, sat in a cubicle.. Glad not to be doing any of those at this stage.

I have plenty of money to buy anything I want, and when it comes to essentials, health etc., I do. But I view the cabin as a hobby, more or less, and prefer to spend our retirement money wisely on it, not knowing what the future holds. I do dream of some day knowing it's time to 'die broke' and splurge, but more likely on world travel or some such.

Most of my cabin and shop lumber was used, though I have never had to take anything apart to get it. The 2x12s above were stacked in a trailer. Only work required was to lay them in place, cut the ends off, screw the joist hangers and plywood down. And the plywood was second hand, although unused. We get lots of leftovers from large construction jobs for sale. It cut and attached as new from the lumber yard.

I also feel it's nice to recycle old materials. I get complemented on it often by the newer 'repurposing' crowd.

snobdds
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 12:21
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I guess we all put a price on our time. I know for me, I can throw $100 out the window today and can make that up tomorrow. If I throw a day out the window, I can not make that back up tomorrow. Time is my most valuable asset and if I have to spend money to create more time...I will do it each and every time.

This came across my news feed this morning.

https://fortune.com/2021/04/13/lumber-prices-2021-chart-price-of-lumber-futures-short -squeeze-home-sales-cost-april-2021-latest-update/

paulz
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 12:40
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That 100 bucks will get you a dozen studs..

You have to spend the time to make that 100 also, and it's 100 less in your retirement savings. If it's doing something you love as much as I love working at my cabin, then more power to you. For me, working for someone else, or running my own business and losing sleep, no way. Moot point anyway, as my only income now is SS.

snobdds
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 13:09
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It's not just recouping the $100 by not spending $100. It's the opportunity cost of not making an additional $100 by having to occupy precious time saving $100.

Where I come from, that math only leads to $0. To be ahead, we should not have a goal of $0.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 15:36 - Edited by: paulz
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Whatever that means. I don't make 100 no matter what I do, and I don't need 100, or 1,000, or 100,000. Another million might be nice but I wouldn't know what to do with it. I'm retired, so I'm happy doing what I want to do, that's my precious time, and I earned it. If it means taking the extra time to work with used lumber, so be it. I have never been money driven, just socked a lot away, and buying Apple at 10 bucks in the '80s didn't hurt.

Another thing that seems to matter to many, not me personally, is the quality of old lumber. Those 2x12s I bought have very tight grain and are super straight. I almost felt guilty using them. Maybe you can still buy lumber like that, but around here people sell old tight grain lumber for a premium. Somebody must like it.

NorthRick
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 16:19
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Quoting: paulz
Another thing that seems to matter to many, not me personally, is the quality of old lumber. Those 2x12s I bought have very tight grain and are super straight. I almost felt guilty using them. Maybe you can still buy lumber like that, but around here people sell old tight grain lumber for a premium. Somebody must like it.


This. A lot of old lumber is from old-growth trees and can be fabulous wood. As Paul says much of it is straight. If it has nice grain and a nice patina it is cool to incorporate into something where the wood will show.

Sometimes it is about more than just the cost.

snobdds
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 16:56
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Quoting: paulz
Whatever that means. I don't make 100 no matter what I do, and I don't need 100, or 1,000, or 100,000. Another million might be nice but I wouldn't know what to do with it. I'm retired, so I'm happy doing what I want to do, that's my precious time, and I earned it. If it means taking the extra time to work with used lumber, so be it. I have never been money driven, just socked a lot away, and buying Apple at 10 bucks in the '80s didn't hurt.

Another thing that seems to matter to many, not me personally, is the quality of old lumber. Those 2x12s I bought have very tight grain and are super straight. I almost felt guilty using them. Maybe you can still buy lumber like that, but around here people sell old tight grain lumber for a premium. Somebody must like it.


It means when a person is building a cabin, you need to maximize your resources and time to achieve a goal. Most people that build are not retired and therefore, spending time demoing a building for someone to gain some lumber is not conducive to the ultimate goal of getting a place up and dried in. Sometimes you have to pay more to gain time.

You do have a good point on old vs new lumber. New lumber is not as good of quality as old growth lumber. However, I have not had any quality issues with new lumber, it builds just fine.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 17:25
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Quoting: snobdds
It means when a person is building a cabin, you need to maximize your resources and time to achieve a goal. Most people that build are not retired and therefore, spending time demoing a building for someone to gain some lumber is not conducive to the ultimate goal of getting a place up and dried in. Sometimes you have to pay more to gain time.


Fair enough, we all have different circumstances in our lives. My house (and the lumber yard, hardware store..) is also only a half hour from the property, so having the proper materials at the job site aren't as critical as those who travel far to get something done.

I did frame my cabin with new lumber, it was cheap back then (like 2 bucks for stud) and used studs really aren't worth the hassle of denailing, split ends.. That I certainly understand.

NorthRick
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 19:01 - Edited by: NorthRick
Reply 


Quoting: snobdds
It means when a person is building a cabin, you need to maximize your resources and time to achieve a goal.


Well, no you don't need to maximize resources and time. Not for a cabin. I'm not retired and my company, and therefore, me too, have to maximize resources and time since we have to compete against other contractors.

The cabin is to get away from this. We have a small cabin that is dry and comfortable but too small for guests. I've been working on a new, bigger, cabin. I've been at it for several years and when people ask when it will be finished I tell them, "it depends."

I might go up on the weekend with the intent to get something done but then get invited over to someone else's cabin for a BBQ and bonfire. So, I don't get done what I was going to get done. Or, we get a bunch of new snow and I decide to go riding with my friends.

The cabin will get done when it gets done. That's the beauty of it.

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 20:09
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Yeah THAT!
We went up today, did a few little things...half as much as what was on my list, and (drum roll) I Took A Nap.
Last fall I was hustling to get things wrapped up, winterized, etc. and my wife was saying I was the Energizer Bunny, always doing something.
Maybe it took winter to chill me out? Regardless, the nap was Great.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 21:53 - Edited by: paulz
Reply 


If you really want to be inefficient with your time, mill you own lumber! I milled the two 25' beams my cabin sits on, the siding and the deck boards, as well as other misc. things. Seeing how I have enough redwood trees to affect the local climate, I just couldn't see buying it, though it probably cost me more for the mill and consumables than the lumber would have, but I still have the mill. And the hours, oh the hours..

Interesting trivia: My trees are all second growth, the old growth trees were logged 100+ years ago to rebuild San Francisco after the fire, so the story goes. When they cut and hauled the logs away, they left the top 20-25' of the trees behind, not worth taking. There was a big stack of them when I bought the place. Turns out they are known as 'Buckskins' and very valuable, tight grain, no sap wood. They are now the siding on the cabin.
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zorro
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 10:14
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paulz - that is one impressive deck!

Looks fantastic right in the woods

paulz
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 10:54
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Thanks zorro. It sits atop a shipping container I drug up there. I've been meaning to run a floor sander over it and put something on the wood. Usable space was always at a premium, that helped a lot. Here's where it all started.
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zorro
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 11:48
Reply 


On top of the container - that is a fantastic idea and great use of space.........also hides it perfectly

I love that!

NorthRick
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 15:42
Reply 


Quoting: paulz
If you really want to be inefficient with your time, mill you own lumber!


If you want to waste even more time, mill with a chainsaw!
Milling 1
Milling 1
Milling 2
Milling 2
Milling 3
Milling 3


toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 16:53
Reply 


I paid $55 for a sheet of 15/32 plywood, OSB which I wont touch was $10 cheaper. I paid $14 for a #2 4X4. I got 10 sheet of plywood and the 22 4X4's, plug a few rolls of 30# felt and yes, H clips, close to $1200 bucks.

All done, going to post photos in "My Project"

paulz
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2021 17:17
Reply 


Quoting: NorthRick
If you want to waste even more time, mill with a chainsaw!


Lol, done some of that too. The throat on my mill is only 16", had to square some logs with an Alaskan mill. Good upper body workout.

Nice looking cuts.

frankpaige
Member
# Posted: 19 Apr 2021 15:47
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Glad mine is finished.
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0989AD28018E41C68.jpeg


rpe
Member
# Posted: 19 Apr 2021 20:15
Reply 


Quoting: NorthRick
If you want to waste even more time, mill with a chainsaw!

My son just picked up an Alaskan mill, a 70cc Stihl, and a bunch of ripping chain. We're looking forward to giving it a go, even if just for some campfire benches.

WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 11:58
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I don't want to add fuel to fire, but just updated my spreadsheet from 2 months ago and it looks like most sizes have spiked up ~25% more

I keep hearing and reading about a surplus of lumber sitting at the mills preventing them from making more due to lack of storage and a possible drop coming...but i'm not seeing that yet based on my data!
Lumber_Prices.jpg
Lumber_Prices.jpg


snobdds
Member
# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 13:39
Reply 


I would not build at these prices...

this is hyperinflation territory. Stagflation comes next.

The economist in me sees a very bumpy ride ahead.

I used around 100 2x6x12 in my build. I paid $7 a piece for them, at $20...that's a hard no.

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 14:34
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I agree/concur!
We are only doing what we 'have to' at this point even though that recent stimulus check is urging me to 'ignore the prices, full speed ahead'

NorthRick
Member
# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 15:41
Reply 


Quoting: WILL1E
I keep hearing and reading about a surplus of lumber sitting at the mills preventing them from making more due to lack of storage and a possible drop coming...but i'm not seeing that yet based on my data!


I don't believe that either. A friend of my owns a hardware store that sells lumber. He's had a real hard time getting what he needs at any price. The only thing that would make sense in this scenario is if there is a problem transporting it from the mills to the lumber yards.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 08:40
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Home Depot closest to my cabin had plenty of everything, zero short supply on anything. Interesting thing too, all their lumber is douglas fir, my local one is listed as white wood and its probably mostly hemlock. I always use doug fir exclusively.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 09:29
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Lumber Prices Tumble! Just kidding TMT.

But..

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3683714-lumber-prices-could-tumble-to-600-by-year-end-b ut-volatility-rules-current-trading

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 10:58
Reply 


Quoting: NorthRick
If you want to waste even more time, mill with a chainsaw

If you want to waste the most time you could also build your own bandsaw mill...what did I win for building my own?

Actualy the only reason why I built one is I had about 10 large 2ft+ white pine that had to come down. That would be alot of labor just to let them rot, so I didnt.

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