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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / freezing pipes
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Boylk
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 08:35
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Hello,
I a new to this forum and have a 600 sq ft cabin in Northern MN.
Really want to use cabin more in winter. Problem is main water supply is frozen. Previous owner looks like they tried to run 6 inch pvc with insulation around it but not working. Thinking I need to dig down this spring to frost line and run heat tape. I would then change out hot and cold lines under cabin to pex and heat tape all that. Right now we can blow compressed air through the system but thought maybe easiest if I just made a drain line of hot and cold underneath at the lowest point in the system. I see where heat tape can be put on a thermostat. Any ideas would be great. the cabin sits on 12 inch round posts and underneath is easy to reach. After we bought I added r-50 to Attic and spray foam underneath. Also have a mini split A/c system that works great in summer and can supply some heat in winter but the condensation freezes up on outdoor unit and worried it may damage it. has anyone heard of running pex under the cabin to create in floor heat hooked up to a tankless boler of some kind. I suppose you would have to worry about power loss with that set up?
Thanks

Just
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 09:07
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The heat Tape I use has the thermostat built in to the end of the wire .Comes on at 33* . I have tryed leaving the water on but it,s a constant worry so I now drained everything and go back in April . Good luck.

hueyjazz
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 12:47
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If you are letting your cabin freeze when you aren't there you need to consider anything that would hold water too like P traps. You can get them in rubber so they expand.

I see you plan to heat tape. Keep in mind without adding heat, insulation only slows a temperature change. Without added heat it will get to ambient temperature. So even with heat tape a power loss can nail you. Pex is the way to go for piping. It can take a freeze and expand. Making low point that can be blown out or sucked out is the way to go. If your mini split is gravity for condensate you just need to make sure trap is blown out. If it has a pump then it's more problematic.

I have a cabin which we use all winter and have your same problems in Upstate NY. We based most of our water appliances on RV equipment. RV toilets don't hold water. We don't have septic so our goes to a RV holding tank . For winter it's more of a screw top 5 gallon bucket with a vent we can cap. My cabin is on piers so this all works well. Wife really enjoys not having to use plan "B" with is outhouse. Or my room as she calls it. Screw up once and forget to drain something you will find out. Likewise you tend to find out new things that need draining you didn't anticipate. And oh, never leave maple syrup behind. It makes a huge mess in kitchen cabnets

Boylk
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 14:47
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Quoting: Just
The heat Tape I use has the thermostat built in to the end of the wire .Comes on at 33* . I have tryed leaving the water on but it,s a constant worry so I now drained everything and go back in April . Good luck.


Thank you for the feedback. It makes sense to drain everything when leaving and maybe incorporating the heat tape when we come up for visits in the cold. Hueyjazz mentioned sucking the water out of the low points and that may be a good idea. I know last year we hooked up the air compressor to a fitting on the hot water heater and thought I had all the water out but on first visit this spring the shower valve was leaking

The joys of cabin ownership

beachman
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 17:06
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I have heard that even the slightest amount of water left in taps that might freeze can ruin the taps. You really have to blow these out well.

rky60
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 17:20
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My cabin is off the ground also, there's about a 3 foot gap from the ground to the bottom of the cabin. I trenched my poly down to 6 feet from the well head so no freeze worries there. Then from out of the ground I put the poly thru 3" pvc and filled around the poly with insulation, still froze of course. Like others have said, it'll freeze sooner or later no matter the insulation on it. I'm there every weekend almost so I keep my 3x5 room where the poly comes into the pressure tank and such heated

But needed a solution for 3' gap, I ended up using an in line heater, problem solved, little pricey tho. Should be installed when the poly is first put in the ground, pulled thru from the other end. But in my case it was to late, but I was able to push it thru the 10' length (comes in different lengths) with a flexible/rigid drain line opener

http://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/easyheat-in-line-heater

rockies
Member
# Posted: 30 Jan 2018 19:38 - Edited by: rockies
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The product I am looking at is called "Carapace".

https://heatline.com/carapace-factory-terminated

You order it for the length you need. It has the heat tape and insulation all in one (although you should build an insulated box around the pipe if it runs between the ground and underside of the cabin). Be sure to click on the plus signs at the end of the blue bars for additional info.

I would also recommend adding their thermostat so that the heat line will only cycle on when heat is needed.

https://heatline.com/thermostats

Brochure:

https://heatline.com/documents/carapace-factory-terminated/CARAPACE%20Brochure.pdf

Asher
Member
# Posted: 31 Jan 2018 09:22
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I used the "vacuum" method, found the lowest point in the system and piped in a hose valve. Then made up a adapter to screw onto the valve and mount to a shop vac. Turn on the shop vac, open the valve and go into the house and open each valve starting with the one furthest from the vacuum until you hear air. Worked great...

rky60
Member
# Posted: 31 Jan 2018 16:49
Reply 


The link Rockie provided has a retro line heater, I like that one better since it can be pushed thru existing lines

Boylk
Member
# Posted: 31 Jan 2018 17:49
Reply 


Thanks everyone for all the help.
Going to come up with a plan when the ground thaws.
I for sure will try the vacuum method.

NorthRick
Member
# Posted: 1 Feb 2018 19:19
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Quoting: hueyjazz
And oh, never leave maple syrup behind. It makes a huge mess in kitchen cabnets


That interesting that you had that happen. We've rolled up to our cabin at -10F and the jar of maple syrup we had out there was still liquid. Which, I found amazing.

hueyjazz
Member
# Posted: 2 Feb 2018 12:43
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NorthRick

To be honest it was my brother-in-laws attempt to make Maple Syrup in a very full glass jar. I'm pretty sure it had more water content than normal. However, sticky component was right up there with a bunch of sharp pieces of glass mixed in just to make it more fun.

It was also a period here when we went into deep freeze for a couple of weeks and I couldn't make my normal every weekend trip to get there to heat up cabin. We even found frozen mice on floor. That's how freaky cold it was. I'm sure it was negative something for a while. H J

Princelake
Member
# Posted: 2 Feb 2018 20:47
Reply 


I work for service master and I've seen mice get thirsty and chew holes in pex.

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