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ICC
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2019 21:36
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Quoting: paulz Why is black pipe used over galvanized?
Nothing to do with price. Galvanized pipe may shed flakes of the zinc galvanizing, which can cause problems with plugging small orifices in the jets.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2019 15:32
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I bought an inexpensive cooktop to replace my camping unit. It came with a hose and regulator so I hooked it up to a 20lb tank to test it out. Works fine. I kmow having tanks indoors is a no no but it sure was handy turning off the tank before bed.
Anyway I guess the next step is iron pipe through the floor, a T, two valves and flex pipes.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2019 15:52 - Edited by: NorthRick
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Quoting: paulz After further investigation, it says you push the knob and turn. I guess the push triggers the igniter.
One of the camp stoves we have sounds similar to this. You have to push the knob in before it will turn. However, the "click" indicating that the igniter fired doesn't happen until you actually turn the knob to high (first setting).
It usually lights off with a big burst of flame. I'm not crazy about that but it does work.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2019 16:44
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Yep that's how this one works. Like a dope I stuck my ear by the burner and slowly turned the knob to see if gas comes out before the click. Ah the smell of burnt beard. That's the second time I've almost killed myself today.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2019 22:23
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That's a good story Paulz. My brother did a similar no no a few years back with a new gas grill he assembled. He didn't have the igniter wire pushed on far enough. He did a couple two or three knob turns...click...turn ...click... Then pushed the wire on the igniter connector. Fortunately that fixed the problem. Unfortunately he left the lid closed while checking the piezo wire......whoosh...baboom!! The grill lit and blew the lid off, about 20 feet in the air, also removing portions of his facial hair! Thank fully I was there to throw some Budweiser burn cream in his face. Lol
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paulz
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2020 10:44
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An upcoming project is to properly plumb my wall heater and grill. Now, the wall heater connects to an outside tank via a dual stage regulator on the tank, 3 feet of rubber hose outside and 2 feet of metal flex pipe inside. When I leave I turn off the valve at the tank.
My peeve is to relight it I have to hold the pilot button down something like two or more minutes before I get a flame. I guess the hose purges itself. Worried that with 30' of new plumbing it will take all day.
Do you guys turn off at the tank and go through this?
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2020 12:11
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Paul’s the line is pressurized the entire length so lighting should be normal. When pushing the pilot light button down you are allowing a small amount of gas to bypass the shutoff valve that supplies the pilot light. The small copper thermocouple bulb that sits near the pilot has a gas in it that expands when heated that pushes on a diaphragm that holds the gas valve open. To keep the gas flowing. If the pilot light goes out the thermocouple senses this and shuts off the supply.
If you’re line is sized right, since you only have two appliances going you should have no problem. Since it hasn’t been mentioned I believe that there is a pipe thread compound particular to gas pipe. Although there are multi purpose thread compounds or pipe thread tape available. I prefer pipe thread paste.
This is not a very technically challenging project and the components are all off the shelf. Any good hardware or certainly an appliance or plumbing store should be able to help you out.
Maybe sketch your project up on paper so if you ask several questions from different places you’re working off the same plan to eliminate confusion.
Glad to see you’re working on your cabin
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paulz
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2020 12:35
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Thanks Ak, great explanation. What I normally do when I leave is turn off at the tank with the pilot still lit. I don't turn off the knob on the heater. Maybe by doing that I am allowing the line to depressurize?
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FishHog
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2020 13:55
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Quoting: paulz My peeve is to relight it I have to hold the pilot button down something like two or more minutes before I get a flame. I guess the hose purges itself. Worried that with 30' of new plumbing it will take all day. Do you guys turn off at the tank and go through this?
After any length of time away from the cottage (like days) then yes I do. I tend to turn on something higher flow than the pilot light to get gas into the line so it will relight. My stove is half way to my heater, so I turn the burner on it first as it flows much more gas. Then I only have to let the pilot purge the line from there to the heater.
I've pressure tested my line for 24hrs with no drop, but if I'm away for a couple weeks it obviously has purged of propane as my pilot takes a while to light as well. I just deal with holding the pilot button down for 2 minutes.
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ICC
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2020 14:43 - Edited by: ICC
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Has the piping ever been pressure tested as is prescribed by code? That is usually done with 15 PSI and pressure must hold with no drop for 15 minutes. If the system holds that amout of pressure it is good as operating pressure is only 0.39 PSI.
If you shut off all the appliances before shutting off at the tank, pressure should hold for days if not longer.
Note that pressure testing new installations is done without any valves. Everything is capped or plugged. Valves do have small leakage and there are deisign limits that are so low you cannot smell the gas. But over months the line pressure may fall. I once found the thermocouple shut off on a heater had a small leakby that would let the pipe pressure fall over a month or so. Inconvenient but no big deal.
Those rubber hoses at tank and regulator do deteriorate over time. 5 years may be as long as you should use one. The hose should be dated with month/year of manufacture.
I have a gas sniffer. Not quite as good as the ones the gas companies have but still very sensitive. I like it over soap bubble testing. The soap bubble test can help you see just where the leak is once the sniffer senses gas present. I think you should be able to find one for $30 to $40 or so on Amazon.
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2020 13:05
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Got to the cabin today. As I mentioned, I turned the valve off at the heater last time (and at the tank) instead of just turning the tank off. Pilot lit in just a few seconds today.
If I had back all the time I sat there holding that button down, I could cook and eat a big steak. If I had one..
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FishHog
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2020 13:54
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Quoting: paulz If I had back all the time I sat there holding that button down, I could cook and eat a big steak. If I had one..
LOL, at least if your wasting time it was at the cabin.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2020 21:56
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Quoting: paulz Will 1/2" pipe do for my cabin with 30,000 btu heater and the stove top? Why is black pipe used over galvanized?
Galvanic corrosion would be my guess.
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paulz
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2020 11:30
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I have to go under my cabin for another job so going to finally plumb my propane properly with 1/2 iron pipe I have. 20' run to back of cabin. Clamp to bottom of joists? Could run straight out the wall and down the side of the cabin, wouldn't be pretty. From back of cabin, is there an accepted safety distance? I'm usin 40lb tanks, may go to 100.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2020 12:17
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If you can leave it below the floor joists so it's not enclosed. What are you running on it?
40 or 100lb is uaualy the same distance. Check the web for that though.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2020 13:53
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Rubber hoses deteriorate and gnawing rodents like to chew on em. You should really have a hard line from the 2-stage regulator to the black pipe, soft copper with flare fittings is good.
By code here you need to have a shut off valve on the supply line just before the hard flex line to the appliance. Code and it makes sense (and is easy) to do it when running new piping anyway.
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paulz
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2020 17:02
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Quoting: Brettny If you can leave it below the floor joists so it's not enclosed. What are you running on it?
I was thinking I would clamp the pipe to the bottom of the floor joists. Is that what you mean? I'm running a 30K btu wall heater and a two burner cooktop. Might ditch the L5 water heater outside for something inside eventually. Do I need 3/4 pipe?
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2020 17:12
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Quoting: paulz Do I need 3/4 pipe?
Very handy reference webpage for that.... (note: One MBH is equivalent to 1000 BTU's per hour)
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paulz
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2020 08:39
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Thanks ICC. Going by the chart, 1/2" pipe at 40' can handle 110,000 BTU, plenty for me.
What I'm seeing online is up to 100 lb. tanks have no restriction on distance from structure other than 3' from any wall opening and 5' from any ignition source.
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Ptomaine
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2020 10:16
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If you go bigger than 100lb you have to be ten feet away from structure.
I can get propane delivered so I have a 250lb tank. I went from the regulator through the wall with 3/4" pipe (the regulator was 3/4" so it made it easier to connect) then tee'd off two 1/2" pipes to the wall heater and the range. I was lucky enough to find an old full sized range that had pilot lights. They are getting very hard to find now days, but they are a quarter of the price of a new off grid style range and big enough to use a full sized sheet pan.
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paulz
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2020 11:36
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Thanks Pt. No delivery for me unless I put a tank at the bottom of my driveway and pipe 200' to the cabin. I just found a 20' stick of 1/2", and I have another in 3/4", threaded both ends. I guess the only down side to the 3/4 is taking longer for the gas to reach the through after changing tanks.
I wonder if the "3' from any opening" means vertically and horizontally? i have a nice spot but has a window above, over 3'.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2020 16:36 - Edited by: Fanman
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This is what the code requires for portable tanks. The larger horizontal tanks are different.
If you google "LP Gas Serviceman's Manual" you'll find this and lots of other useful information like pipe sizing, etc.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2020 19:22
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Good stuff, Fanman 
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2020 08:51
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Quoting: paulz Will 1/2" pipe do for my cabin with 30,000 btu heater and the stove top? Why is black pipe used over galvanized?
I suspect its got "galvanic corrosion", dissimilar metals will corrode. In like a water pipe going from zinc to copper, they usually use a bronze, but zinc to copper is a no no.
I would use only black pipe for gas, gas takes up more space, so size it bigger than you would lets say doing a water line.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2020 12:26
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Thanks guys. I guess I will go for the 3/4 pipe in anticipation of future needs.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2020 10:55
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Just one more thing.. if I put my tank 10-20' from the cabin, what pipe can I use on or just under ground? Behind the cabin, just me going back there.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2020 19:47
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At our cabin we have two 100# tanks right up against the cabin wall, the proper distance from the nearest window. At home we have two 420# tanks on a concrete pad about 6' from the house (they could be against the house but the pad was already there from an old shed or something). I used copper tubing with flare fittings for all the gas plumbing in both places, it's easier to work with and bend around corners.. At home, I encased the copper tubing in black plastic well pipe where it went underground between the tanks and the house. If underground, code gives a minimum depth it has to be buried to.
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ICC
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2020 20:20
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If you are only going to have 10 to 20 feet to run, that can be done in a single length of the green coated black iron pipe. It is made for propane or NG. You can couple two lengths together and there is special PVC tape for taping any joints that are buried. But it has all the hassles of cutting and threading ends, or you can measure and have HD or Lowes, and others, cut and thread the ends.
I really like the Home-Flex poly tubing for underground runs for propane or NG. Home Depot sells it as do other places. I think you can buy a 25-foot coil; I have only bought the 100 foot. By code, it can not be used above ground, so there are special elbows made to transition from poly to iron where the tubing enter the ground.
Home-Flex also has the CSST, corrugated stainless steel tubing. It can be run through walls above ground but should be sleeved in PVC pipe when used below ground. Both types have the advantage of allowing a long unbroken buried length.
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2020 08:26
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This is what what we used at our house from our large tank. It might be longer than you need but will show you the parts needed for below ground.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-Underground-3-4-in-x-100-ft-IPS-Polyethylene-Ga s-Pipe-New-Install-Kit-Two-3-4-in-Couplers-Two-3-4-in-Meter-Risers-18-429440-007/3091 82788?MERCH=REC-_-searchViewed-_-NA-_-309182788-_-N&
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paulz
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2020 16:14
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Thanks guys. Is there a standard height above the floor that my inside pipe should run horizontally through the wall studs from one appliance to another?
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