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95XL883
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2020 18:11
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Years ago I heard of scam where a crook would either place a mortgage on or sell a mortgage free property. That was probably 15 years or more ago.
I have two pieces of real estate that are debt free. I think I have the mortgage fraud sidelined as I have locked my credit. In other words, the fraudster would have to get my credit unlocked and then mortgage the property without me knowing.
It would be hard to do a fraudulent sale of an occupied property. Kind of hard to "show" a property when the owner is there. But my rural property? Somebody might be able to pull that one off. (I saw some things in the local title company and recorder's office when I bought it that concerned me. They played awful loose with what was treated as a legal document.)
It is unlikely to happen but if there is something I can do to protect my title, I would like to hear it.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2020 07:28
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Dosnt title insurance do this? It checks and insures the title of the property so you know it will be yours and there are no other titles issued or loans on it. After that if someone else put money down on property that is yours that's there problem and there title company should pay.
That's how I see it at least.
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95XL883
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2020 09:07
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Thanks Brettny,
I would hope title insurance would pay but title insurance is limited, I believe, to the amount of the policy determined at time of purchase. I have had my house so long that its FMV is more than three times what I paid for it and the title policy amount. My rural property is worth almost twice as much as I paid for it and the title policy limit. The losses would be 6 digits. Even if they pay to fight the fraudulent claim, the stress of a lawsuit is extreme. (I have been involved in a couple for my employer and one personally. Stress ratchets it up quickly in those situations,).
On the plus side, I haven't heard of this in a long time so I am probably concerned over something that most likely won't happen.
I just got to wondering about it yesterday after what I presume is a flipper called me. As I am not listed in a ny phone book, he obviously had done some internet digging to get my cell.
I may call a title company today and ask them. Again, this is likely not a problem and I just need to quiet my mind about it.
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shingobeek
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2020 13:20 - Edited by: shingobeek
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95XL883, I think that is certainly the best first step, with your title company, and maybe there is a process to up the limits.......now you got me thinking as I am in same boat time wise/value wise! I an in N MN and our issue is a bit worse as not many people in our area know or trust where the actual property lines are...and most really do not want to know as we all know it will affect everyone on the lake...so title insurance is what we all have, but not sure if anyone ever re-visits that until the need arises.
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ICC
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2020 14:27 - Edited by: ICC
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You should check, but I do not think title insurance goes forward. Its purpose is to cover the buyer against defects in the title that may have been overlooked prior to your purchase. Like a lien that was placed on the property before you bought it, or back taxes that were owed and missed, a claim of ownership by someone else before you bought it, an unrecorded or improperly recorded easement, etc. etc. That would be why the amount covered is set by the purchase price.
I don't know that there is any specific thing a property owner can do to prevent a fraudster to sell a property that is not theirs to sell. If they are going to do that they will not have any compunction about forging papers, etc. It is illegal so there would be legal means to address the problem if it should occur.
It would be a hassle, would involve hiring lawyers most likely; just plain bad all around. It is an easy enough thing to check the tax assessor's website where ownership details can be seen by anyone.
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ICC
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2020 14:32
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Quoting: shingobeek I an in N MN and our issue is a bit worse as not many people in our area know or trust where the actual property lines are...and most really do not want to know as we all know it will affect everyone on the lake
That question of boundaries is the reason any buyer should insist on a new survey when buying land. Otherwise, the best you can do is to go by what is registered with the county tax assessor, and depending on the age some of those are faulty. I'm not sure how title insurance applies to a faulty survey, but I think there should be some protection, but I am not a lawyer.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2020 16:54
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I think a good title insurance company and a good lawyer would want a recent survey done.
And if your property is worth 3x more now and someone sold it to you and it wasn't there to sell you didn't own it to begin with so 3x the price now means nothing.
I'm thinking the title insurance is for the buyer its covering not the buyer that's not buying it legally. They would need there own insurance.
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95XL883
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2020 09:18
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I didn't get a chance to call the title company yesterday. ( I am still working.). What I did see online agrees with ICC's statement that title insurance protects against problems that exist at the time the ground was purchased and not a fraudulent transfer afterwards.
The other thing I saw online stated that while fraudulent transfers do occur, those are very rare. It takes an intimate knowledge of the process and a lot of manipulation. Basically it is a lot of work with a high probability of getting caught.
I appreciate everyone's comments. The risk is low of it happening and if it does, the odds of getting the property back are good but it will take an attorney and time. If one ever finds themself in such a situation, you need legal representation quickly. If someone ever shows up and claims ownership, I am not letting them have possession unless forced out by a court. Thanks again.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2020 15:57
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You own the property, you hold the deed, I think you're worrying about nothing.
I suspect those kinds of scams are usually some kind of inside job, where the fraudster has information that the property owner is incapacitated or otherwise unreachable and won't notice any funny business.
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