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Small Cabin Forum / Properties / By-Laws that affect the enjoyment of our property (Bruce Peninsula)
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bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 23 Sep 2016 07:46
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Beautiful area...the whole peninsula is classified as a World Biosphere Reserve, so I understand and appreciate that they want to protect the beauty, which is why we are drawn to this area. Unfortunately, I think they have gone overboard...but on the other side of the conversation...I can see why they are doing what they are doing because when we were looking for land, I could not believe the number of lots we looked at where previous owners had left buses and large trailers to rot with piles of garbage all around...these are the folks that do not see their role as stewards of the environment...these are the folks ruining it for everyone else.

Roblyn
Member
# Posted: 27 Sep 2016 13:30 - Edited by: Roblyn
Reply 


Thanks Bushbunkie,
I decided to let that one go. It's getting real tight up there now. I'm coming up this weekend to scout out another place that has a well onsite already. no septic though. Wish me luck guys. I'll let you know what goes down.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 27 Sep 2016 18:31
Reply 


Good Luck, Roblyn...despite the challenges (across Ont, not just the Bruce) we love it...you will never see starry nights like you will on the Bruce...we are around Lions Head...beautiful area... In fact, I have two friends coming up to stay with me this Friday, so they can land hunt all day Saturday!!
You might have some competition

charlene
Member
# Posted: 9 Apr 2017 19:56
Reply 


We are considering purchasing a piece of land on the Northern Bruce Peninsula that has an existing cabin (definitely a tear down), a septic system (not sure if it is in working condition) and a 60 amp service. We would like to build a double car garage on the property. Any suggestions or thoughts would be really appreciated !

bldginsp
Member
# Posted: 9 Apr 2017 23:45 - Edited by: bldginsp
Reply 


If the cabin is a tear down, and if the septic was put in at the same time as the cabin, the septic is certainly old enough to be at the end of its life. You can test a septic by running water into it until the water backs up. If it never backs up and doesn't come up to the surface, the septic is working well. Otherwise once the system is saturated with water you can do a perk test, which is to see how long it takes to drain water down once it is full. Does it do so fast enough to easily handle 500 gallons a day? Also if the septic was put in with a permit the local health department might be able to tell you when it was put in, how it was built, and what its capacity was when built.

60 amps isn't much for an electrical service, unless all you need is lights and a few kitchen gadgets. But if you have electric heat, cooking, air conditioning etc a 60 amp will be too small. I'd check with the local utility and ask what the cost would be to upgrade to a 100, 125, or 200 amp service. For an all electric house with more than one car charger a 400 amp service may be necessary.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 12 Apr 2017 20:05
Reply 


Hi Charlene,
If the cabin is an obvious tear down you'll most likely be starting from scratch. You will not receive a permit to build a garage, because you need to have an existing home or cottage on the property first. Before you can build a cottage, you'll need to put in a new (and inspected) septic system. The Bruce does seasonal fly overs to keep track of structures that crop up on properties. The building code is very strict and enforced.
The best thing might be to pop into the municipal office (in Lions Head) and just inquire re. if we were to potentially purchase a property with..." and see where it goes. Is there any potential to salvage the existing cabin?...then you are simply renovating on the current footprint...much less hassle and you can stay under the radar a bit.

Tobemory
Member
# Posted: 25 Aug 2017 15:49
Reply 


Quoting: fedup
container home (illegal), as this will start a process once you apply for the permit. You will have to put in a full septic system and the municipality will tell you how big the dwelling has to be (minimum 1000sq ft), the type of foundation, when they expect you to finish it, etc. They have new bylaw enforcement officers who are now operating by the book, doing fly overs with photos to look for illegal builds, etc. They will make you tear out structures. Perhaps the reason the folks are now selling is because someone already complained and they are now on the municipalities radar. This summer for the first time ever I was sitting on the porch of our cabin and mpac pulled up to assess the pro

well said, Boy, sounds like a police state. I would never buy land there. That may be their intent too. Too bad.

Tobemory
Member
# Posted: 25 Aug 2017 15:52
Reply 


looks like Tobemory is police state like north North korea, Tobemory Mayor is related to North Korean leader Kim Jong-un?

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 26 Aug 2017 08:54
Reply 


The Bruce and several areas near Toronto or any major city (min 150 km radius) now are fully infected with "The Hogtown Pox" and no longer for the casual non-urbanite who wants to get away from Urbanism & the Citiots.

Ultimately anyone looking for a peaceful & pleasant getaway place needs t go further away to where more reasonableness still exists and you have some freedoms from the idiocy of urbanites who demand conformity to their way of thinking & living.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 1 Sep 2017 07:42
Reply 


Hey Steve,
I agree with you to a point...but I think many of us have also had some experience with the country "locals" who's behaviours rival that of the "Citiots". For me, it's some of the ATVer's and hunters who think our properties are open for business once the fall and winter comes...hence the unfortunate posting of the no trespassing signs. I like to believe in the 80 / 20 rule.....80% respect your property and are good and helpful neighbours...trespassing signs and locks on your shed are for the other 20%. On another note...hoping your health issues are stabilizing...getting better and you can continue your build!

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 1 Sep 2017 07:52
Reply 


/me Waves at Bush Bunkie... Yeah, some locals are whacked but that applies anywhere & everywhere doesn't it. Hunter's, well most feel empowered to do whatever they want... believe me, we have MANY around here and someday's it's sounds like a war zone... quite often they are "visiting" hunters who choose to ignore signage.... A neighbour down the road got 3 rounds into his house wall, cause of some morons... neighbour returned fire, with 4 rounds of 7.62x51...

Build Ongoing ATM and in last big push effort... Had a helper for August but had to let him go - now on my own & that's good in a few ways. Health is holding but I'll pay the price later on but that's ok too... It's the last big push effort to completion.

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 1 Sep 2017 11:14 - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply 


Quoting: Steve_S
The spread of Urbanites is spreading the disease of Urbanity and the related idiocies that go with it... Anyone seeking freedom from the insanity must seek it at a distance from the "red zone". Red Zone meaning any area that has been subjected to Urban Toxicity of over regulation, restrictions and enforced uniform "sheepleness".

Then they (the herd) ask are we & others trying to escape to areas where sanity remains ? Thank Goodness there are still safe haven's out here...


I don't fully agree.

Firstly, my thinking is that these rules are brought in (approved) by local elected officials. These officials are usually pro development because development raises taxes and thus revenue for their needs. Moreover, most people, no matter where they live, are in favour of growth of some kind or another in order to increase wages, jobs, etc. So some rules would be aimed at capitizing on a region's assets (tourism, etc) and preventing landowners from screwing up that so called 'greater' potential that the local businesspeople capitalize off and actively work to perpetuate (via political donations, etc). Beyond broader jurisdictional issues (in Canada it's the Feds that set rules for waterways I believe), it's basically the locals making the rules.

Secondly, my guess is that many bylaws are put in place out of a response to some negative situation created by idiot landowners. Basically some landowners did something that led to a disaster or a ton of complaints or some issue that the bureaucrats had to deal with. They can't just go after one person so they then have to bring in some general rule that screws it up for everyone else. Plus neighbours complaining about every little thing leads to more and more rules. It's a simple response to squeaky wheels. I'd expect that a ome other rules are simply copied from other jurisdictions which are in place because, yes, some idiot landowner screwed it up there and the news of the horror stories spread far and wide among municipalities, counties, etc.



At one time as a property owner we had a local vote but lost that in the 1970s. Not that it mattered but now we pay taxes without representation. The rural residents control everything and cabin owners are likely only seen as a source of revenue.



Enjoy:

Marni Soupcoff: The bureaucrats vs. summertime fun | National Post

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/marni-soupcoff-the-bureaucrats-vs-summertime-fun


See the article below. I just came across this. I don't fully understand the context but as is, it clearly and truly is a great, well written article. A rare thing.

Definitely a must read in terms of how bylaws bureaucracy can screw up a lot of lives!!


Comment: Saanich eco-bylaw an overreach of bureaucracy
BOB ETHERIDGE / TIMES COLONIST

OCTOBER 10, 2015 12:44 AM

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-saanich-eco-bylaw-an-overreach-of- bureaucracy-1.2082204

Kamn
Member
# Posted: 1 Sep 2017 11:37 - Edited by: Kamn
Reply 


I see where you're coming from but, when do we say enough is enough, stop telling me what I can do on my own land.
Its one thing to have building codes so houses aren't collapsing on families, or septic systems that work to protect the environment, but when the town tells me I can park a trailer on my own damn land or camp out on my own property, this is where it goes too far. As for neighbours, there needs to be a "piss off" and "mind your business" by-law.
The system as it stands now just sucks
You pay for a property that you technically don't own

KinAlberta
Member
# Posted: 1 Sep 2017 12:21 - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply 


Quoting: Kamn
I see where you're coming from but, when do we say enough is enough, stop telling me what I can do on my own land.
Its one thing to have building codes so houses aren't collapsing on families, or septic systems that work to protect the environment, but when the town tells me I can park a trailer on my own damn land or camp out on my own property, this is where it goes too far. As for neighbours, there needs to be a "piss off" and "mind your business" by-law.
The system as it stands now just sucks
You pay for a property that you technically don't own



There's a real irony to those that keep and protect their land. They lose the option to develop it in the future, because everyone else screws it all up for you.

In our case my brother and I have talked about donating our lakeside plot of natural land to the university or some conservation entity but my point here is that we've had a lot of our flexibility and future options stripped away from us due to restrictions. Restrictions basically caused by others developing their land. So while I'm mostly fine with the development restrictions apparently being put on our property, it sure highlights the reality of protecting and not developing land. Just the financial impact alone on our land value is huge. It's a: you snooze you loose situation.

So here we are, within an hour's drive of over a million population, my brother and I owning nearly 3/4 of a mile of lake frontage plus having the lake's main inflow creek with beautiful banks on either side flowing through the property. (If ever developed it would have road access on two sides, nicely sloped land providing lake views even from some more distant lots plus prime lot development potential along both sides of the creek.) In the past economic bubble, developers approached my brother about selling. I'm not sure if they would now. Other land around the lake was fairly recently subdivided and new land use regs were recently imposed.

However as is the land is an increasingly rare commodity, society and local governments are recognizing that. Our land, beyond some remnants of a couple early pioneer farms with small fields and the impact of a century old selective logging, is around 90% untouched by man. We like it that way. Even our nicely groomed white sand beach has now grown over and we now have more wildlife and birds than I've ever known before in my lifetime.

Well, because other landowners developed their land first, farmers have cleared many sections of previously forested land, destroying some beautiful land and other landowners have subdividing their land and brought in cottage owners that raze everything on their lots and turn them into basically fence to fence groomed city lots, the result is that raw, natural land is becoming rarer and rarer.. So people are realizing this and the government is seeking to restrict development of what's left.

If people had moved into the country, and minimally disrupted and destroyed it, and attempted to keep some of the beauty that attracted them to it in the first place, then the government wouldn't be screwing up the development rights of those that didn't just jump on the profit wagon or choose to do something or other that destroyed value in everyone else's eyes. So, a cabin in the bush is one thing. A cabin with the proverbial junkyard around it and all the signs of ugly "urbanity" just highlights what had been lost already and so people stick it to others because of what often they themselves have done to destroy the inherent desirability of an area. You snooze, you lose when it comes to owning rural property.


Interesting:

Ten Recent Trends In Land Use Planning & Their Impacts | Canadian Environmental Law Association

http://www.cela.ca/article/environmental-deregulation-ontario-1996-2000/ten-recent-tr ends-land-use-planning-their-impac

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 2 Sep 2017 07:33
Reply 


What I am talking about is the folks coming out of major urban zones and bringing their meddlesome & demanding ways with them... As the "Piss off and Mind Your Own Business" rule is chucked and the disregard for peoples places... Stanger's walking past the No Trespass signage just to look at your place because they are curious ! Then those that say you should not do this, that or do it this way or my way...

I'm not against Rules Regs and Common Sense... Do I want my neighbour down the road to have 6 car hulks in his front yard with garbage surrounding it, no... Good Septic & Well systems are a must, just like Building Codes & Regs (for personal & general safety) or Electrical Codes etc... That's all fine and dandy, no problem (even when inconvenient).

The "Weekenders" who come along and want to force "their visions" upon others ? NO

The weekenders who insist that minimum home sizes should be > 1000 sq feet + and be "urbanized & manicured"... Towns do look at "Tax Income" and such and when the greed kicks in and the "De-Countrification" -> Gentrification... then stay in Urban Containment Zones.

Those that come and disrespect your space and tranquility because they feel especially "empowered" ? NO

The Tourist Hunters who cannot fathom the concept of NO HUNTING where there are families / people living ! OR Farm Animals grazing !

BTW: Fed's do make main rules on water ways & lakes to a point, the rest falls on Province / Territory... it depends on a few different things like navigable water ways, versus water shed sources etc... quite a jumble...

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 3 Sep 2017 15:53 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
Reply 


Steve S, well said. In fact, perfectly said, are you my twin? . I think of them as locust. They flee the area they created because they dont like it and then, try to convert the area they fled too, back to what they fled in the first place. Locust move through, strip all the goodness away and move on to the next area.

We have an HOA, but far from police state. Just very minimal. We do have minimum cabin size, but its 320 sq feet and I really see no problem in making that smaller or eliminating it with the tiny home craze, smaller footprint.

We did have some locust try to push for nazi type HOA rules and the locals ran him off at a meeting. (not physically, but mentally, his idea. The locals explained, we moved here to get away from that stuff.

FedUpasWell
Member
# Posted: 28 Dec 2017 15:05
Reply 


This is for FedUp....just read your post and like you I have a large parcel of land in the North Bruce...I also put in a driveway and parking lot a few years back and had the same problems with bylaw...I read those two bylaws over so many times I could recite them forwards and backwards...lol..Im not a lawyer but it was obvious to me that a lawyer did not draft the tent and trailer bylaw...There are so many illegalities in it that if it went to court it would never hold up...My opinion and numerous letters however did not make a dent on council...Eventually I had to retain a lawyer and after one letter I was left alone...There are many bylaws drafted that are not legal but most of us wont stand up to the townships imposing them on us...mostly because it costs to much to fight city hall...As far as it being OK to park your trailer on your property if you have a home...NOT TRUE either...even if you own a home you are not allowed under the tent and trailer bylaw...In point of fact, the township will impose a 2000 down payment from you if you decide to build a home and want to park and make use of your trailer while doing so...Once your home is completed and your ready to move in the township will refund you 1000.00 but only after you remove your trailer...if you don't remove the trailer they will retain your 1000.00 and start sending you letters about fining you 250.00 per day and or removing your trailer under the property standards act...I have spoken with three lawyers about this particular practice as I view it as a form of extortion and each were in agreement with me...Think about it for a second...How is it legal to first make something illegal but then make an exception to this, and make it temporarily legal but only for the townships monetary gain?? As far as the comment about the area becoming like a police state...unfortunately that's not so far from the truth...I honestly believe the only way we will ever get change up there is to file a massive class action lawsuit against the township...Hit them in the pocket book and they will listen...Trying to arrange such an action would prove difficult I think although not from a lack of fed up property owners.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 30 Dec 2017 08:52
Reply 


Unfortunately these rules are not specific to the Bruce and across many parts of the province if your hoping to stay within 3-4 hours of the GTA. Our first property was near Balsam lake around Lindsay and the rules were the same...even tighter. We started with a Bunkie (now on the Bruce) and simply kept a low profile and became friends with the neighbours. A guy down the road two years ago built a 16 x 18 cabin and has not been bothered by anyone....you take a chance though...if you have mean or nosy neighbours it can be a problem.

Athanasios44
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2018 19:52
Reply 


Realize your post was a while back but I'm confused re: the trailer issue
if you review schedule A of these bylaws https://www.northbrucepeninsula.ca/en/municipal-services/resources/CommonRequestedBy- laws/BY-LAW-2012-12-Tent-and-Trailer-By-law.pdf

you will see that parking a trailer and occupying it temporarily is allowed once you have completed construction of your home

and this is a post from a local realtor

( https://kathydimaline.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/northern-bruce-peninsula-trailer-by-la w/ )

If you have an existing residential home or cottage, you can have up to twotents/trailers/motor homes on the property and they can be occupied for up to 7 consecutive days at one time. You need permission from the Municipality for more than two occupied units, for special occasions or longer occupancy. See Schedule A of the By-Law."

Were you told differently by the muncipality?
Thanks

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 29 Apr 2018 08:54
Reply 


I think the point of frustration is that the person wanted to put a trailer up as a “cabin” on his property for years and sometime down the road build a residence or cottage. He has nothing “existing” on the property already so putting a trailer on the lot would be illegal....like many communities within 2-3 hours of TO. Once your cottage is built the trailer is no longer an issue.

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 29 Apr 2018 11:16
Reply 


Quoting: bushbunkie
.like many communities within 2-3 hours of TO. Once your cottage is built the trailer is no longer an issue.


That is the rub, many people like to have a trailer on site so they have a place to stay while cabin is under construction and after its finalized, move the trailer. It would be nice if they would allow it during permit phase at minimum.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 29 Apr 2018 13:42
Reply 


Hi Toyota,
Yes - they will allow a trailer temporarily as you build your cottage / cabin and have shown that you have the permits to start. I guess talkin to some of the old timers up here the bylaw was created because some folks used to put trailers on with no intention to build and leave them there for years then sell the property leaving rotting trailers in the bush as someone else's problem.,,,not caring about neighbours that actually live there fulltime. Unfortunately, most of us (80%) respect our land and mother nature and the bylaws get written and enforced because of the other idiots who could care less (20%).

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 29 Apr 2018 15:26
Reply 


Quoting: bushbunkie
Unfortunately, most of us (80%) respect our land and mother nature and the bylaws get written and enforced because of the other idiots who could care less (20%).


That is good news. Its always a small percentage that ruin it for everyone else.

Just
Member
# Posted: 30 Apr 2018 20:11
Reply 


Uthink i'm ok
low profile
low profile


95XL883
Member
# Posted: 30 Apr 2018 20:41
Reply 


That's really clever. You built your cabin to look like a trailer.

Jim in NB
Member
# Posted: 7 May 2018 07:25
Reply 


The Bruce - spent all my summers as a kid up there in the sixties and early seventies. Boy has it changed. Did a quick look at properties on MLS - "oh so close to the water entry level 3 season cottage" for only $175,000. Waterfront properties thru the roof. If you had an property asset anywhere that was worth that kind of money you would not want to have a trailer set up anywhere near by. Likely the biggest part of the reason and background for many of these bylaws is for protecting property values and people's assets. The Bruce has not been a place for getaway, simple vacation place for a long time. Such is life.

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 7 May 2018 18:24
Reply 


No kidding....waterfront property down the road sold for $700,000.

sandie
Member
# Posted: 26 Nov 2018 23:04
Reply 


HelloI. I just bought a couple acres with a driveway and a cleared out area to build on in Pike Bay area,
One lot from lake ( so special...I love it)
I am looking at putting an appx 700/800 sq ft trailer there permanently on a foundation. Does anyone know if they would permit that....even though its not 1000 sq/ft? 4 season building....and its nice!

razmichael
Member
# Posted: 27 Nov 2018 10:34
Reply 


Sandie, given the area you are asking about, there is likely little point in asking here - you need to go to the local municipal office and ask the questions. It is also useful to check their website first so you go in with a good understanding of what you think the rules are. I don't know that specific area, but given the area you are talking about, I suspect they are very strict. Arguments like "it's nice" will mean little. Also, don't forget that their are also lots of other rules (septic for example) and everything will need permits anyway. You are not in an area where you can "hide".

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