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milo1
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2014 20:12 - Edited by: milo1
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Let me explain my situation! I'm buying a cottage in a relatively small Quebec municipality which from what I have heard, has poor record keeping and enforcement of zoning laws, etc. The property has lakefront, but the cottage is rather far back from the lake. The lakefront is covered with dense trees. I would prefer to fly below the radar as much as possible, in terms of what structures the municipality knows are on the property, and what it does not...
So then I have this quandary: it's up to me if I want to order a certificate of location along with the sale. My family members are urging me to do so, in order to verify property lines and what not, because if there are any discrepancies that are not found, it could cost me if I ever choose to sell the property. However, I'm worried that this certificate of location will act as proof of what is (and is NOT) already on the property.
So I'm wondering, should I be worried about the cert of location? It's just a private document, right? But will the town know that a certificate of location has been produced? Will they get a copy? Will the notary be writing onto the deed everything that the certificate of location lists as being on the property, thus creating a record of what is and what is not already there?
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 08:03
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Sorry no advice from me. I will say that things heal after time. Very few of the buildings on my town property have been permitted over the last forty years, yet they know all about them now and don't know or choose to bother me. That's in the US.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 08:22
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under the radar for me ...my 1st cabin I built ( no permit) the tax man found it 15 years later...and said we must have missed this on our last inspection...I said I guess you did...lol
if you are going to get power to the camp ~~do that BEFORE you start building....they usually have someone sign off on it.....then put up a gate and no one can walk back to your camp. Inspectors will drive ~~BUT they hate to walk behind lock gates...lol
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 18:58
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As you state, the Certificate of Location is a private document. I seriously doubt the municipality will be the least bit interested in it. You need to decide if you need it to provide your own protection - is the land properly registered and surveyed, are there any rules that may impact the buildings etc etc. With the recent push that Quebec undertook to reform its land registry system in 1994, a process that continued until 2011, cadastral numbers - the land registry numbers unique to each lot in Quebec - have changed. The Certificate is for your protection so you need to decide how much risk there is. Given the cabin is already there, it would be grandfathered for location with respect to the waterfront - maybe not an issue as you state you are way back. Waterfront rules have recently really been made strict.
Other thing to consider is whether it really matters in the municipality. We have put in an outhouse, grey water, build a cabin and a dock - everything needed a permit. On the flip side they cost almost nothing ($20 or so) and take a few minutes to arrange. The building permit took 20 minutes and cost $40 (although we did need to have a septic survey done). Nothing we have done has been really inspected other than to make sure it does not impact the waterfront.
Fly below the radar if you want but always be prepared to be caught and pay the price.
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milo1
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 19:21 - Edited by: milo1
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Thanks guys, for your replies!
Good points, I think I need the certificate of location for my own protection, especially since it is a private document and doesn't seem to interfere with any building plans.
My main concern is that the new deed will likely mention only 1 dwelling, which makes it difficult/impossible to later claim there were always 2.
All I really want is a "backyard studio" / glorified shed to hang out in or sleep in on warm nights. But from what I understand I would not be able to get a permit to build such a thing right by the water, and if there was one already there it would most likely be mentioned on the new deed that will soon be written up, which worries me. Ideally no one would have any reason to doubt that something hadn't already been there for decades...
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razmichael
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 20:04
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I would suggest you consider talking with the municipality (phone call) and find out how hard it is to get a building permit. You can build 50 ft (or maybe 75 - cannot remember) from the water and you may find that a permit is simple and easy. If you try to build closer it may be the MNR that will come after you and they have no sense of humour. With google, aerial photos etc it may be very hard to argue that something was there for decades if they come after you (not to mention it may be hard to build it to look like it has been there for decades). Before you assume that you cannot do something try to find out the local restrictions. Waterfront rules are province wide but municipalities will then overlay (or not) local rules.
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milo1
Member
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# Posted: 15 Sep 2014 00:45
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Sorry but I'm just going to throw some more questions out there for those of you who are familiar with deeds and with town hall processes.
Do you know what I can expect my deed to say? Will it, for example, say there is 1 dwelling and 1 outhouse, and if there was a 10x10 shed, would that be listed?
Does the town consult my deed to see what is and what is not on the property? Or is this totally separate from their 50 year old records on the property?
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 15 Sep 2014 13:46
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The deed will have a list a of rules if they exist, any permanent property (or property that has been recorded) and any notes on leans, mineral rights, etc. It will also include the boundaries, easements and back-set lines you need to obey.
The Recorded Deed is public property and you should be able to get a copy of that now. It is good due diligence to do so.
The town will occasionally come around to see if any improvements have been made and adjust taxes based on their findings. Some towns do this once a year and some will do a check every few. They don't change the recorded deed.
Just be honest with what you are really trying to gain by flying under the radar - it may not really be worth it to have the grinding at the pit of your stomach if it really isn't a big deal to get a permit in your area.
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