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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / "Disturbing the peace" during hunting season
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bobrok
Member
# Posted: 8 Oct 2018 23:03
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I'd like opinions, please, especially from you hunters.

Is it considered rude or discourteous to run a chainsaw during fall big game season?

I need to take down a few trees right near my camp and I just didn't have the time over summer. I figure a few hours, just one day, and I'm finished.

Would I pi$$ you off if I did this?

Appreciate your input.

frankpaige
Member
# Posted: 8 Oct 2018 23:51
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You are overthinking it. Timberrrrrr!šŸ˜Ž

Just
Member
# Posted: 8 Oct 2018 23:52
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Common bush sounds do not bother game , you would not bother me ! That being said if a hunter is having bad luck he may blame you , I would wait till 10 am to start and stop by 3 pm .You can split ,Haul , pile the rest of the day

toyota_mdt_tech
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 00:06
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Nope, you are just as legal as they are. It can move deer away from you to the hunter, be an advantage.

I took the grandkids up into the national forest the sunday after thanksgiving. It was always a tradition. We cut our own tree. I rode my dirt bikes in this area, knew it well and was full of noble fir trees around 4000 feet and it was a hillside full of nobles. We get there after turkey day or the snow shows up and cant get to it. Well, was the end of deer season that weekend too. Kids are noisy playing in the snow, I cut the tree, then loading tree into truck and down comes a crabby hunter.

I asked him if he is done. He said in a snarky voice "I am now". Truth is, if he is still hunting last day and calls it quits that easily, he wasn't going to harvest anything anyway.

Its nice to see people are still considerate of others, ie you asking this question in the first place. Wood cutting and deer season seem to be done around the same time.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 00:07 - Edited by: ICC
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Life does not need to stop or even change just because it is hunting season. More people do not hunt than those who do.

I used to hunt, don't anymore, never used to worry about what others did when I did hunt. If the trees you need to fell are yours and near your camp hunters ought not to be hunting with rifles that close to you, IMO. Bullets travel further than the sound of a chainsaw.

deercula
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 02:22
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In some states it is unlawful to INTENTIONALLY disturb game and hunters.

Personally I would not be bothered by this unless you were doing it right on our common border, or out of spite.

kittysmitty
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 05:29
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I am a deer hunter.First, it's your land, you can do what you want. Second, a lot of the folks around here say the sound of a chainsaw in the woods actually attract the deer. They are curious. I hear chainsaws often when I hunt but as Just said, it would be courteous to limit the cutting between 10 and 3.

FishHog
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 07:16
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thanks for being considerate, an uncommon thing these days, but as others have said not a concern. I run my chainsaw while up at deer camp and don't worry about it at all, neither will the deer.

Mike 870
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 08:40
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I make plenty of noise at my place during all seasons. The thing about it is, you might push the deer (or whatever) towards the hunter rather than away. That said, I've always had the best luck right after sunrise and right before sunset, so you're probably not disturbing prime time.

sparky30_06
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 09:55
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I am a hunter. If you are on your land you can do what you want. Now public land is a different story OR if the hunter can prove you are intentionally disrupting his hunt you will probably be getting a visit from the game warden. You would have to be close to disrupt a hunt

Borrego
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 10:05
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Quoting: ICC
If the trees you need to fell are yours and near your camp hunters ought not to be hunting with rifles that close to you, IMO. Bullets travel further than the sound of a chainsaw.


^^^^^

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 10:24
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Bobrok, I've got a lot going through my head on this. First, good on you for being considerate. It speaks highly of you and your character.

As you are probably picking up, the answer is it depends on a lot of facts and circumstances that can vary during the day and season. My observation is that generally machinery and gunshot noise cause game, deer in particular, to hunker down. The exception would be a noise starting close to them would cause them to move, if they haven't already just by somebody walking in and setting up. If it is quiet and cool to cold, deer will move during the day especially during the rut, so mid-day cutting could be annoying.

All of this relates to distance and how sound carries. The wind, topography and woods all affect how the sound carries. Thus, if you are in heavy woods with a south wind at 15 or mph (general guess on wind speed) and on the north side of a ridge, somebody a couple hundred yards to the south of you may not hear a thing while somebody a half mile away to the north may think you are much closer. You may not have any effect at all on the guy to the south but may initially push deer towards the hunter towards your north.

As others have said, the time of day does have some effect. Again, my observation is that mechanical noises starting early in the morning generally mean I won't see any deer that day. If the deer are close to the sound, they may move initially but will soon hunker down. At that point the hunter's day is essentially over.

I love running chainsaws. To me, a strong saw with a sharp chain is a lot of fun to use (as long as I'm careful.) That said, I generally will not run a saw on my ground from September through mid-January. It disturbs the deer and changes their patterns/habits. If one of my neighbors was to start up 400 yards away, initially I might see some movement but after a half hour or so, my hunting day would be over.

That said, if you have a tree that is threatening a building, you got to do what you got to do. I can take not seeing deer if it means my neighbor doesn't have a tree on his buildings. But if he is starting up 10 yards from the property line just to cut firewood, well, I'm not going to be happy.

The point is its a situation which you have to judge. Do the best you can. It will most likely be fine.

Some people are understanding and will shrug off such intrusions (There is somebody about a mile away from my property who loves to target shoot with his AR, I can tell from the sound and speed of fire, about an hour before sunset. At that distance, that ruins my hunting for the day. Any deer that are out when he starts are quickly gone and nothing new comes out. Just the way it is. I'm not happy about it but I'm not going to go in his face about it.) Some won't be and won't say anything. If somebody gets irate, just stay calm and judge any situation that develops.

A couple other thoughts, cutting during the rut at any time of day would bother me. The deer are fairly mobile during the rut and they will simply move away and be gone for several days at least. Now if you are talking elk, that is a whole different beast. Disturb them during the rut and they are leaving quickly and most likely won't be back. If you drive feral hogs on to my ground, I would be especially unhappy. (So far the closest I've heard of them to me is 15 miles away. I'm afraid the day is coming that I will have to deal with those pests.)

Use your judgement and most likely everything will be fine. Thank you for being considerate. I would be glad to have you as a neighbor.

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 10:51
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"Life does not need to stop or even change just because it is hunting season. More people do not hunt than those who do.

I used to hunt, don't anymore, never used to worry about what others did when I did hunt. If the trees you need to fell are yours and near your camp hunters ought not to be hunting with rifles that close to you, IMO. Bullets travel further than the sound of a chainsaw."

ICC, I don't mean to pick a fight with you but there is so much wrong with your statement and I am shocked and disappointed to hear it from you. You are smart guy who generally shares a lot of wisdom but if that is the way you truly feel, it is a good thing you don't hunt anymore.

First, just because somebody hunts or doesn't hunt, or somebody is part of a larger "group" or smaller "group" should have no bearing on being civil and considerate. Hopefully, you were just having a bad day when you wrote that and don't really mean it.

Second, all hunters and anybody with a firearm, should be aware of the state laws regarding usage. Some states prohibit a weapons discharge within 100 yards of a dwelling. That seems reasonable but my concern with that rule is it doesn't prohibit discharging towards an occupied dwelling from more than 100 yards. In Kansas, the rule is it is a felony, I believe, to discharge a firearm into an occupied structure. Thus, on one part of my ground I could stand at the fence line, maybe 15 yards from my neighbor's house and legally fire at a target on my ground. Now being a decent guy, I almost certainly wouldn't take that shot just to be considerate of my neighbor. It's called using common sense and being considerate.

Third, to address the comment that really bothers me ("Bullets travel further than the sound of a chainsaw.") Seriously?! Have you taken a hunter's ed class or even basic firearm safety? That comment shows a serious lack of basic firearm safety and being considerate. A shooter is responsible for any bullet leaving his weapon. One of the four rules is to know your target and what is around and beyond it. Most hunters I know, and I practice it myself, is any round I fire stays on my ground. I line up my shots so my bullets stay on my ground. I have and will continue to let deer walk if there is a realistic chance that the bullet will leave my ground. In addition, if I know a neighbor is hunting near the property line or his children may be playing anywhere close to the property line, I'll let any deer walk rather than risk an injury to somebody else. Conversely, anybody who puts a round onto my ground is going to getting a visit from the sheriff and game warden. If any damage is done, I'm going to be pressing charges. As I have said, most hunters I know feel and act the same way.

Your comment indicates you are one who doesn't or maybe you were tired or having a bad day when you wrote that.

I'm not going to argue with you but your post is just flat wrong. As I said, you are a smart guy who shares a great deal of wisdom but that post was one that could have been done better.

To everybody else, I apologize for my tone. Please understand that the comment in question shows very poor judgement and while a very rare occurrence it still has to be challenged and safe practices enumerated.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 19:04 - Edited by: ICC
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95XL883, no offense taken, no hard feelings.

Bad day? You could very well say that. And I am old enough to know better than to offer opinions when pissed. So, I am sorry if some of what I said offends anyone.

However, each year about this time I have to repair fences that hunters drive over or thru even though there are no hunting, no trespassing signs posted as per my state's regulations. Signs get damaged and torn down.

Sunday I had an unscheduled fence repair. Some yahoo drove thru the fence from the county road to collect an elk they probably shot from their truck on the road after sunset. I had come down that road just after sunset and there was no damage. In the morning I found the tracks thru the ditch and fence. That was my immediate impetus for feeling trodden upon and being in a foul mood.

Over the past couple of decades, I have had bullet holes appear in a water storage tank and a steel granary. Bullets have whined thru the air over my head on my posted land. I have found elk carcasses untouched but with the head missing. Signage gets shot up.

I get grumpy.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 19:14
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Add to that a cow and a horse that got shot several years ago, years apart.

Borrego
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 20:58
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95XL883 - I think you missed ICC's point re "Bullets travel further than the sound of a chainsaw." I don't believe he meant it literally. You're way too serious. Relax.

ICC - sorry about all your problems, man I don't know what I'd do if that was happening at my property, probably shoot back...

bobrok
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 21:52
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Thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts on my question. I appreciate the input.

hueyjazz
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2018 22:08
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My cabin is in upstate NY. Huge deer population around here. I study deer year round. Gun range just down the road. Doesn't phase them. I've had them watch me while I chain sawed.

I hunt and one of the reason I bought my property was to hunt and to be safe while doing it. I don't subscribe to if it's brown, it's down. I watch a lot of deer during hunting season. I hear chainsaws going as well as the gun range down road. Doesn't seem to be an issue. Even when there's a close shot from other properties I see deer run a few hundred yards and settle down.


There's good and bad in all practitioners, hunting is no exception. I've now heard a slug go passed me twice. Once on public land and once on my own property. On both occasions I found the perpetrator and had a discussion.

It's a polite discussion in that everyone is holding a firearm. I did enjoy hearing they knew the property owner very well.
Well, I don't think you do since the guy at the bottom of all those yellow panels on trees is me.

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 09:43
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ICC, thank you for the response. I apologize that I took your post so seriously.

You have every right to be grumpy, actually more than grumpy, with trespassing hunters/poachers(?) damaging fencing, tearing up fields, leaving almost carcasses, shooting up your livestock and property and the one that p****s me off the most, launching a bullet onto my property. Each situation is different and you have to judge it, but from the sound of it, if it were me, I'd be complaining to the sheriff and game warden. While they may not do much about the trespassing, they should take the shot up property, the apparent poaching and the bullets onto your property very seriously.

I've had to repair some fencing and clean up trash from trespassers but so far no substantial damage.

Just a thought. How well do you know the adjoining landowners? What problems I have had, and they are no way as serious as yours, have been mostly resolved by talking to the neighbors.

Are they literally driving through the fence? I can see some yahoo doing that but it has to be hard on their vehicle. Maybe there is a way to "reinforce" the fence so they have to damage their vehicle even more. On one of my entrances all I have is a 3/16" steel cable. Some mowing equipment caught it and it certainly stopped that fast. It has some kinks now but it is still solid. Just trying to think of things to help.

Sorry you are having those problems. Wish I could do more to help.

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 09:50
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Borreago, thanks for the encouragement to relax. My greatest concern when hunting is not seeing somebody in my line of fire or somebody else launching a bullet on to my property.

As long as I contain my shots on my property (as I was taught) it isn't much of a concern.

There is one property adjoining mine that is a 10 acre sliver of woods. It is a great bedding area and I'm sure a great hunting are as long as people don't disturb the deer too much. That attracts people to hunt on it. Unfortunately the dimensions and topography make it really difficult to keep a bullet on that property. I have had several discussions with hunters there that if they aren't careful, they will be putting bullets very close to me.

Thus, any indication of unsafe hunting practices gets my attention. Thanks again for the reminder to relax a bit more.

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 09:54
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Bobrok, I had another thought. If you are cutting one or two days, while it may annoy a hunter, that really isn't that big a deal. Gun season may only be 10 to 14 days long but to a devoted hunter there is archery and muzzle loader seasons as well. Some sound just goes with rural land. It is good of you to be considerate but you are entitled to take care of your land. Do what you have to. I'm sure you will make a good choice.

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 09:58
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Hueyjazz, anyway the deer up there can teach the deer in Kansas to chill out. Geez, here they really hunker down at mechanical sounds, even distant sounds (like four or five miles away) during deer season. Good luck this season.

Gary O
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 10:22 - Edited by: Gary O
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Heh, first day of the hunt, several forked horns make their presence.

One becomes picky, passing on the lesser beings.

The following week, nothing, not even fresh poop.

Last day of the huntā€¦seeking anything, a spike would be a prize.

Braking camp after season closes, getting into yer empty rig.

A four point, western count, emerges from a thicket, giving his profileā€¦.


Yeah, Iā€™ve sent buckshot into the sky to scare deer away from the garden.
They move a bit, a few yards, then settle back down to graze.

Yer good, bob

ICC
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 15:20 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: 95XL883
Just a thought. How well do you know the adjoining landowners?


Quite well, we talk regularly; are on very good terms, help with general work. Some of us have had the land in our families for generations going back to when Spain was the ruling authority. Others have only been owners for a hundred years or so. A dozen or so are newer as older tracts have had pieces sold off. Those are mostly largish chunks of 25+ acres. I know most of those folks by name though I only see some of them a few times a year.

The poaching and hunters trespassing problems are not coming from any of the other owners, IMO. Everyone has had no trespassing and no hunting signs ever since I can remember. Not that none of them hunt, about half still do. We all tired of strangers running around our lands and some of them causing damage years ago. When strangers cannot even remember the simple ordinary courtesy of leaving a gate the way they found it (open or closed) it is easier to say no to everyone. Seems to me I learned that shortly after I was able to walk.

Virtually everyone in the area has found evidence of illegal hunting activity (trespass or poaching) over the years. Evidence in the form of downed fencing, carcasses left to rot w/o the head, signage shot at or removed. The few that have been caught in the past dozen years or so have all been from the semi-distant town, or the more distant big city or out of state. The last apprehended poacher was from town.


Quoting: 95XL883
Are they literally driving through the fence? I


I may have stretched the truth a little. Mostly the barbed wire is snipped and they drive through the fence line.


Quoting: 95XL883
Maybe there is a way to "reinforce" the fence so they have to damage their vehicle even more.


Not too practical or economical when you are looking at a fence line a half mile or more in length.


The Sheriff and the game folk are friends and sympathetic as can be. Budgets being what they are not much can be or is, done for a trespass, unless photographic proof is available. I and others have had a small amount of luck catching a few trespassers in pictures and video. The areas involved with all the others are good size chunks and surveillance equipment and upkeep still add up to goodly sums if you want to cover a large area.

The poaching gets a lot more attention but more are not apprehended than those that are. There are a couple in the town area who are suspects, but they are either innocent, lucky or clever.


In a way, part of the problem may be the BLM and NFS public lands that border our properties as well as county roads that pass through private lands. The big problem though is ignorant people not having respect for private property. The few trespassers I have personally encountered on my land have mostly professed ignorance of where the boundaries were. That gets almost insulting when they are standing there with a Garmin pinned to their jacket.

OTOH, since the Sheriff caught the local druggies who were doing burglaries, other forms of property crime have decreased.

RiverCabin
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 17:46
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Quoting: ICC
Life does not need to stop or even change just because it is hunting season. More people do not hunt than those who do.


Exactly this.

I won't intentionally disturb anyone but that being said, I bought my land and I work hard to pay for it. I'll be damned if I'm going to not use my land for the benefit of another.

Sorry to be a butt about this but I'm fed up with "Sportsmen". As a child, growing up on a farm, I've seen fences cut by lazy hunters, blatant trespassing, litter, and a bunch of other stupid behavior. One time we had a man back over hundreds of feet of crops so he could get his crappy walmart boat closer to our pond where he wanted to fish (of course with no permission).

After buying my own farm, I was threatened by a hunter for being on my own farm during hunting season. No kidding.

Then of course we have my cabin where everyone loves to fish without permission. I'm rewarded with fishing line, discarded packaging, beer cans, and cigarette butts.

I know there are good hunters and fishermen but oddly the bad ones are drawn to me.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 18:44
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Quoting: RiverCabin
Then of course we have my cabin where everyone loves to fish without permission. I'm rewarded with fishing line, discarded packaging, beer cans, and cigarette butts.

I know there are good hunters and fishermen but oddly the bad ones are drawn to me.


Those are my thoughts, my feelings about the situation too. We remember the bad ones in part because we don't even know about the respectful but still uninvited visitors unless we encounter them face to face or in pictures or video.

bobrok
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 18:54 - Edited by: bobrok
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Post removed

95XL883
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 19:20
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Quoting: ICC
Some of us have had the land in our families for generations going back to when Spain was the ruling authority.


So I'm guessing you are in California, Arizona or New Mexico. It is pretty interesting how long some of that ground has been held in specific families. Is the downed game you are finding all elk? Regardless, it is pretty sad that you have had these problems at all and especially for so long. (Luckily for me my problems have been minor in comparison. I don't know if it worked to my advantage or not but I don't suffer veiled threats well and direct threats even worse. Thus, when the local "problem owner" made some veiled threats shortly after I bought what I did wasn't illegal but it scared him and then I made a point of being seen walking my ground open carrying a 9mm and an AR15. I really am a nice guy; but since I've been a victim of a violent crime, I don't suffer threats lightly.)

Seeing these are hunters and you and most of your neighbors don't hunt, maybe something a little more drastic. Like voluminous target shooting during hunting season. I would start about 30 minutes before sunup and continue till an hour after sunrise. Start up again about an hour before sunset and continue until a half hour after sunset.

Do you like fireworks? Fireworks, really loud ones, would be good. As long as you don't have legitimate hunters close by tough cookies for the trespassers, poachers and smart enough to use a Garmin but too dumb to know where property lines are crowd.

Do you have enough acreage or can a group of landowners sell hunting leases to a professional outfitter? I don't know how well they really do it but I have heard some of them can be pretty good at keepping the riff-raff out.

Maybe a version of what happened to me on my elk hunt. We were on private land, that we paid handsomely for the privilege to be there, and a couple of local yokels kept driving up and down the fence line saying they were tending fences but were really just interfering with our hunt. They partially succeeded in driving the elk away from the property line but luckily for us, we had 1,500 acres to hunt. The worst part of their aggravation, and something I recommend avoiding, is when they came up and got in our faces and taunted us. That was a dumb thing for anyone to do to guys carrying high-powered rifles. (I still have trouble believing they were that stupid.)

Normally, I'll take the hunter's side but I'm respectful of the ground I hunt on and stay on my ground unless I have specific permission to be on other ground. If I'm trespassing, it is to retrieve game that crossed a property line after being shot.

No biggie on snipping versus driving through a fence. Actually I find snipping a fence worse. That is hard to repair and there is no damage to their vehicle. Hmmm? Can you easily but in a "drainage ditch" right before season? Something a little too deep and just wide enough to be very difficult to cross with a vehicle?

How about this one? If the wind is right, can you burn some fires, kept under control, where the smoke drives the game farther into the BLM land?

I guess what really bothers me is inconsideration, whether it is a non-hunting adjoining land-owner or trespassing, public land hunters. Inconsideration just isn't nice and chaps my backside, so to speak.

Sorry you are having to deal with this. I'm getting grumpy and I'm not even the one dealing with it.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 19:58
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NM. I sold off the original adobe home and much added onto and renovated house 5 or 6 years back to a deep pockets city guy. They have put a truck load of dough into it.

Mostly elk.

There are some pro guide outfits in the area and a couple of very large ranches that sell private hunts. Very popular with those who can pay.

Fireworks not too good of an idea until there is snow on the ground because of wildfire danger. We do not burn as much as we used to, again because of wildfire danger. We have a bunch of slash piles still left from last winter because we didn't get enough snow. This year we thinned a wide band near a NF boundary and mulched the slash and unwanted trees with a big grinder.

Smawgunner
Member
# Posted: 10 Oct 2018 20:01
Reply 


I wouldn't do it during the rut. Any other time between say 10:30-2:30 should be fine.

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