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Small Cabin Forum / Off-Grid Living / Lithium for Small System
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Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 28 Oct 2019 16:12
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Gee wiz, I bought my Rolls S550's in 2015 for $340 CAD ea, their new updated versions are selling at $410 CAD. so FLA is no longer ANY option in my universe. LOL Ohhh and I get a bonus of having to drop 13% Tax on top, where as buying used can often avoid that extra "levy on living".

cspot
Member
# Posted: 3 Nov 2019 20:57
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I might be having to go to this option soon. My lead acid battery seems to be going downhill quickly. I was hoping to make it to Spring, but not sure that will happen.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 4 Nov 2019 03:57 - Edited by: Steve_S
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Cspot, I didn't re-read the thread but I came across these while searching for something:
Valence Lithium Battery U27-12XP | 12V 138AH 1.766 kWh
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Valence+138AH&_saca t=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Valence+100AH

selling from 400-499 ion the USA. A lot of Video's on them on YT as well as how to use the Built In BMS or even replace it with a different one.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 4 Nov 2019 17:53
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Thanks Steve, I will check it out.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 5 Nov 2019 15:07
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Actually, I asked Creeky about batteries and we went back & forth a bit, unfortunately that solution was not correct for me. After a heap of research, checking & double checking while entertaining various solutions, including assembling & building my own Powerwall or LifePO4 pack, I pulled the trigger on a "pack".

24VDC/400AH LifePO4 pack with built in BMS.
LifePo4 battery pack from ShunBin on Amazon.CA
REF LINKS:
Amazon Canada: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07TWD17TZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF 8&psc=1
Amazon USA: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TWD17TZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UT F8&psc=1

24VDC/400AH LifePO4 with built in BMS
- They can be connected Serial / Parallel so it is possible to make a 24V/800AH or 48V/400AH etc... just add a pack and configure accordingly.
- The BMS is self contained and there are no options. I had asked if there was any wifi / Bluetooth or other connectivity like Modbus to monitor / maintain and adjust the BMS packs.
- Cell Brand Used is Lishen

Free S&H and expected deliver by Nov.26. I will be seriously digging into it but others are already doing so and I am following them, in fact it's because of them I chose this (photo's, videos, etc all torn apart & being tested)

They sell all sorts from 12V up and many various AH ratings. Can be customised too.

One BIG benefit of LifePO, they have a very close voltage profile to FLA making them easier to integrate with less hassles, another, is they will not burn or explode, unlike LiIon if something dumb is done to them.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 5 Nov 2019 17:16
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I have been researching, but I still come back that for my system the Battleborn battery is probably the best solution for me since I just have a simple 12V system. It would be a no hassle swap out. I just hope I can limp along with my lead acid until next year. I will see if I can do that. If not I will bite the bullet and buy the Battleborn.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 5 Nov 2019 19:10
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There are others that do identical as Battleborn, even Victron has a line of batteries out. Thing is, a lot of manufacturers are building factories & production of all forms of Lithium based batteries is increasing exponentially. Prices will only continue to fall. I really had no choice as I live here & now, so...

cspot
Member
# Posted: 5 Nov 2019 19:22
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Quoting: Steve_S
There are others that do identical as Battleborn, even Victron has a line of batteries out. Thing is, a lot of manufacturers are building factories & production of all forms of Lithium based batteries is increasing exponentially. Prices will only continue to fall. I really had no choice as I live here & now, so...


That is part of the reason I am hoping to squeak out some more time with my lead acid. My cabin is recreational use so I can hopefully get by for a while. My biggest fear is buying something and then 2 months later I could have saved some cash. Only good thing for me with a single battery 12V system my cash outlay won't be as bad as a larger system.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 17 Nov 2019 12:05
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I wasn't able to squeak out any more time with my lead acid. Battery can't maintain above 12V. I got by with it while hunting this past week, but would put the genny on with a charger when I got in at night until it was time for bed. At night the charger would show 75% charged and would be around 12.7V. By morning with very little running on it it would be down to 11.8V or so.

So anyway I bit the bullet and ordered a Battleborn battery while I was down there and also got a new Victron charge controller. Battery should be here tomorrow and I already got the charge controller. Hope to install it next weekend. Should be an easy change out.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 17 Nov 2019 12:39
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CSpot, you should view this, you'll feel even better with your choice.

$950 "Battle Born" Battery Tear Down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5E30u-66VI

cspot
Member
# Posted: 17 Nov 2019 15:32
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Quoting: Steve_S
CSpot, you should view this, you'll feel even better with your choice.


Yes I do feel better. Thanks The low temperature cutoff is important for me as my battery sits outside. I may put it inside the cabin at a later date. However since my cabin is recreational and being in Ohio we don't get a ton of daytime temps below 30 degrees I think it should be fine. I also bought this battery charger and I plan on getting a heated blanket for it so that way in really cold temps I could warm the battery with the Genny and charge it. NOCO Genius G26000 12V/24V 26 Amp Pro-Series Battery Charger and Maintainer https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004LX14Z2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UT F8&psc=1

For me for a drop in replacement with all the research I did, the Battleborn just seemed like an easy drop in replacement. There are some cheaper options but those didn't have the low temp cutoff and many of the options required me putting together the system.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 17 Nov 2019 15:59 - Edited by: Steve_S
Reply 


Follow Battleborn's directions and you won't go wrong with it. That vid from Will is good because it shows what's really inside and the quality of everything. The charge profile the recommend is for AGM which is similar, the BMS works out the differences for cut off etc.

Key Point on NOCO charger:
<quote>
An optimized charge mode for safely charging and maintaining 12-volt lithium-ion batteries, and recommended with use on lithium batteries with an internal BMS.
</quote>

BTW, likely easier to put it inside, no toxins, acid or fire risks with these eh.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 17 Nov 2019 16:35
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Quoting: Steve_S
Follow Battleborn's directions and you won't go wrong with it. That vid from Will is good because it shows what's really inside and the quality of everything. The charge profile the recommend is for AGM which is similar, the BMS works out the differences for cut off etc.


The cool thing about Battleborn. I ordered the battery off of Amazon as I had a gift card. I ordered a charge controller directly from Battleborn. The next day I had a message from Battleborn saying they had some questions. When I called them they wanted to know what battery and what system I was hooking this up on. That way they would go ahead and program my charge controller to be optimized for my battery/setup. All I have to do it hook it up. I thought that was pretty cool.

I bought that charger about a month ago since it had a lithium mode knowing I was going to go this route.

I may eventually put inside. Downside is I would have to rewire which isn't a huge chore. My cabin isn't heated when we aren't there, so putting the battery inside really wouldn't help that much. It would only help when we are there. That is why I was thinking the battery blanket would be the way to go. If I was farther North with colder temps then I would probably definitely put inside.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 25 Nov 2019 20:04
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Well it looks like I got a bad battery. Got to call Battleborn back tomorrow. I installed this past weekend and had issues with it disconnecting (turns out that was low voltage disconnect). Talked to Battleborn today and they told me to charge it completely and leave on charger with it reading 14.4 volts for a half hour to make sure it was full charge and then put a known load on it until it went into disconnect. I did what they said and hooked up a 12V heater/defroster that was rated at 13 amps. Checked on it periodically and a little less than 2.5 hrs the battery went into disconnect. This means I got a little over 30 amps out of the 100 amp battery. I am sure they will take care of it as the lady I talked to today was very helpful. A little aggravating as I was so excited when I put it in that I was going to be maintenance free for years. LOL.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 27 Nov 2019 18:27
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Sent the battery back to them last night. Hopefully they fix it or get a new one back to me soon.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 10 Dec 2019 19:24
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Well, Battleborn check out the battery and are fixing today and sending out tomorrow. Turns out the BMS was bad and they replaced it.

mj1angier
Member
# Posted: 11 Dec 2019 09:21
Reply 


I know the OP has gotten his battery but for others reading and still looking:

I got this battery off Amazon in July
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RKMGLLJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UT F8&psc=1

It has done well for me and have been very happy with the company. The battery arrived with a cracked case, company was quick to respond to emails. The case is not a major component in the working of battery- I checked it and it was working fine. They gave me 1/2 of the cost back and sent me a new case to transfer batteries into- guess they would lose less money than shipping back to China. I just kept the case and may try to build my own.
They have been very responsive to questions about what setting to put into my inverter/ charger.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 12 Dec 2019 18:40
Reply 


Well they finally shipped my battery back out today. I should have it Wed. A little disappointed that it took that long to get fixed. Not a huge issue, but I guess I am impatient.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 22 Dec 2019 20:43
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Ok. Right now I am not too happy. Finally got my battery on Thursday. Was out of work early on Friday so I took it down to camp and got it hooked up. Since I was there early, I rewired it so that it would now be inside the cabin instead of outside like the lead acid. Got it hooked up and everything seemed good. DIdn't use much juice and yesterday was a bright sunny day, so it should have been charged. Looked at it this morning and it was 12.6V which is almost dead. Same problem that I had before. I guess they didn't fix the battery.

Brought it home today, recharged it, and now I put a known load on it like they told me to do the last time I had an issue. This way when I call them tomorrow, I can tell them that. Put a 13 Amp 12V defroster on it and it lasted 2.5 hrs. 30 amps is a far cry from the 100 amps it is supposed to have. This really irritates me as it is the same issue. They said they had fixed my battery and was sending it back so it wasn't another battery. They said the BMS was bad before. I guess I should have tested it before I took it down, but I assumed that they would have done that.

Going to call them tomorrow and see what is going on. Frustrating as it has taken a month from the time I got it till now with shipping back and forth. Thinking about telling them to refund my money. Downside is I really like some of the features of the lithium.

FishHog
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2019 17:04
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sounds like you got a lemon which sucks for sure. Unfortunate BB didn't just replace in the first place, but if they don't this time, ask for a refund, then just order another in a few days and you will get a different battery.

They seem to have a pretty good product and good reviews but sounds like service is a little lacking

cspot
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2019 17:08
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Quoting: FishHog
sounds like you got a lemon which sucks for sure. Unfortunate BB didn't just replace in the first place, but if they don't this time, ask for a refund, then just order another in a few days and you will get a different battery.

They seem to have a pretty good product and good reviews but sounds like service is a little lacking


They are sending me a new one without me even sending the other one back in. When I get the new one it will have a return slip for the old one. Took a long time on the phone today to get to that point. If this new one doesn't work then I will ask for a refund and go to a different manufacturer or buy another lead acid. This has been frustrating. I thought the lithium would be an easy drop in and forget about it.

FishHog
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2019 18:46
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Quoting: cspot
I thought the lithium would be an easy drop in and forget about it.


it will be you just had some bad luck. Even the best companies can have issues at times. It is unfortunate that they didn't give you that solution the first time though.

cspot
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2019 19:12 - Edited by: cspot
Reply 


Quoting: FishHog
it will be you just had some bad luck. Even the best companies can have issues at times. It is unfortunate that they didn't give you that solution the first time though



Yes I know. Long story on the phone call today as I didn't quite tell everything. The guy kept asking questions about how charged the battery was and kept saying that it may not have been full charged. I said even if it was at 70% charge when I started I still only got half the amp-hrs that I should of when I did the test.

Then he said that the Noco charger I got isn't the best for the battery to get a full charge. I said well it is shown on your website as a charger that works with your batteries. He said it wasn't and I told him where it showed it. That irritated me as well as to why they would show that as a charger if it wasn't the "best" charger to use.

Then he asked me about the solar charge controller and asked if it was properly setup for lithium. I said well I bought it from you and someone had called me when I bought it and confirmed that it was for lithium so they could pre-program it for me. All I had to do was plug it in.

Then he was asking about the solar panel and what I had hooked up to the battery. It took alot of explaining to him, but I told him my estimated usage fell in line with what my test showed with the heater.

Then he was acting like the 12v heater I was using for the test maybe was drawing more than 13 amps that it is rated for. I said well it has a 15 amp fuse on it so it can't be using more than that and that still doesn't give enough amp-hrs.

Then he said that he looked at the paperwork before when I returned it and he doesn't think they found anything wrong, but just replaced the BMS. He said this because there wasn't accompanying paperwork. I told him the lady I talked to then said that the BMS was bad. So who is telling me the truth? I told him if nothing was found wrong the first time then why wasn't I told that so that I could troubleshoot if the issue was on my end. Also I told him I had no issues with my lead acid battery other than it was old and was losing capacity. If I was drawing that much power the lead acid would have been completely dead long ago.

WHen I returned it the first time, they had told me that it would be shipped out the one day and it wasn't actually shipped for a couple of days. That irritated me as well.

Basically the whole process has been frustrating for me. My patience is wearing out. I still like the upside of lithium and alot of people like their batteries so I am giving them another shot.

I have probably spent about $20 in gas driving to pick up the package from fedex(had to sign) and to send back. I spent $15 on a 12V defroster to test the battery. Then I apparently spent $200 for a charger that isn't the best to use.

Sorry for the rant, but the more I have thought about things after the call the more frustrated I have become. I even explained at the call and as he was going thru the stuff that I had already done this the first time. Yet we kept going back over and over the stuff. I was on the phone for a good 20 min and I was at work so it isn't like we were trying different tests on the battery. I had already redone everything I was asked to do the first time I had an issue. Hopefully the new battery will fix everything.

Only speculation on my part, but I wonder if the tech that checked the battery didn't do what he/she was supposed to and just threw a new BMS on it? My plan when I get the new battery is to put the heater on it prior to taking it to camp to see what happens.

FishHog
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2019 19:25
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that really sucks, sorry you had to go through all that. I truly hope the replacement works well for you and I'm pretty sure it will

cspot
Member
# Posted: 23 Dec 2019 19:27
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Quoting: FishHog
that really sucks, sorry you had to go through all that. I truly hope the replacement works well for you and I'm pretty sure it will


I hope you are right.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 24 Dec 2019 06:54
Reply 


Man that sucks. I saw one video where a defective BB battery was taken apart and it turned out to be the BMS wire harness got disconnected somehow during shipping. Fortunately this is not like having to send back & forth from offshore while thumb twiddling and BB is standing behind it and replacing the battery. I expect the new one will be okay, let us know how it goes.

Merry Xmas to you & yours as well my friend, enjoy the holiday's and don't over eat eh ! LOL ….

cspot
Member
# Posted: 24 Dec 2019 14:32
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Quoting: Steve_S

Man that sucks. I saw one video where a defective BB battery was taken apart and it turned out to be the BMS wire harness got disconnected somehow during shipping. Fortunately this is not like having to send back & forth from offshore while thumb twiddling and BB is standing behind it and replacing the battery. I expect the new one will be okay, let us know how it goes.

Merry Xmas to you & yours as well my friend, enjoy the holiday's and don't over eat eh ! LOL ….


Thanks. Merry CHristmas to you too!

cspot
Member
# Posted: 5 Jan 2020 17:27
Reply 


Replacement battery seems to be working fine.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 5 Jan 2020 18:16
Reply 


Good to hear ! Happy all is well.

An Interview with the President of BB was just posted about 2 hours ago. Worth watching !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywn-vBjKblI&t=0s

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