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SteveN
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# Posted: 3 May 2015 20:31
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After a winter of waiting to get started on our property, we went up to check it out this weekend.
The property is drier than we expected, and we have a couple of ideas on where to put our cabin up. The cabin build will likely be a few years down the road, but in the meantime we will be fixing up the 12x24 shed (really a complete re-build) that will serve as a "shabin" until the cabin gets built and it will then become a shed/shop or may live on as a guest "Bunkie".
Attached are a few photos. The large house has to come eventually, but we can salvage some useful stuff out of it prior to demolition. The red shed with the caved-in roof is the re-build project this summer - and also we have a major clean up to do with lots of rubbish around the buildings.
There was a well drilled on the property in 1951 with clear water at 20 feet so hopefully it won't be much of an issue get a new well done in the next few years. I imagine the old one is a write-off and we haven't been able to locate it yet.
There's no septic system, just an old run-down outhouse. As for grey water, the house has some lines that run into the ground but I am unsure of where they go.
We have power on the property and it runs to the old house - we'll have them move it once the cabin is built. The "shabin" will likely run off of a 3000 watt generator, and be heated by a salvaged wood stove from the old house (there's a nice Fisher stove in there).
We have 12.5 acres of maple, ash, oak and elm forest and we absolutely love it. We had it surveyed this winter and our property lines are very clearly marked. No trespassing signs are up along the road and will be added to the other lines in the next couple of weeks. We are a short walk to the lake, so in the summer a refreshing swim will be great - in the winter ice-fishing is going to be fun!
I'll try to keep updates with photos posted after each visit.
Old house
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Old house with barn in background
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Red Shed - soon to be the "shabin"
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 3 May 2015 22:28
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Love the old house
Good luck on getting started!
How exciting of a time u shall have.good luck.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 3 May 2015 22:41
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Looks like you got your hands full! Couple questions, just from what you have shown us,
Why a generator if you have existing power? I can see the transformer on the pole.
You sure the old place has to come down? Not saveable?
How do you know the well has clean water at 20 feet if you don't know where it is? You sure it needs to be replaced? I've heard that some of the first drilled water wells from back in the 20s are still operational. Maybe all you need is a pump.
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SteveN
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# Posted: 4 May 2015 08:26
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Hey bldinsp, the existing power is currently hooked up to the old house but not active. The power company will move the meter/hookup for us once for free, so we are saving that move for the cabin once it is constructed.
The old home is in really really rough shape. Inside the drywall has come down in almost all places (including the ceiling). There is standing water under the house (a stream runs under it in heavy rain). It smells badly of mould and mildew and it has obvious signs of rodent infestation. The next time I go up to the property I'll go in with my camera and post some shots of the inside. It's kind of creepy - lol. We don't like the style of the house and really want a cabin situated a little further from the road.
I researched the well location on our provincial government's website and obtained a record of the well that was done in 1951. The record describes the type of well. It's a scan of the original record that has been saved as a pdf file. The map showing the location of the well is so poor that it really doesn't help much. As all the information on the record is hand written and has likely been copied many times prior, it is a little hard to read but here's what I can make out:
1. We have the UTM Coordinates
2. It was completed Sept 11, 1951
3. Cable tool construction
4. Well use - domestic
5. Construction - 5inch steel to 11ft (through sand and boulder), 5 inch open hole to 20ft (through granite).
6. Distance from top screen to ground level 1ft
7. After test of well yield water was clear
8. Final water level 10feet
9. I can't make out what it says for pumping rate.... maybe 6 gal?? (bad hand writing)
I hope that we can find it and that it is still good. It would be nice if we only needed a pump! We found what looks like a shallow dug well on our North property line behine the old barn... I think it may have been used for livestock though.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 4 May 2015 15:13
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I see your reasoning with the elec and the old house. Time for that building to die.
A well in solid granite is ideal. It's the sand and the casing above that could be a problem. Steel casing doesn't last forever and then it will let in sand. Since the original casing is 5 inch I bet you could get a new 4 inch casing in if necessary then drop a 3 inch pump in. But at such a minimal depth all you need is a surface pump. Let us know what happens.
I had to drill to 400 feet. Consider yourself lucky
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SteveN
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# Posted: 5 May 2015 07:50
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400 feet is a long way!! Wow! Thanks for the advice on the casing, hopefully it won't be too costly to get the well up and running.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 5 May 2015 09:48 - Edited by: Littlecooner
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Some quick thoughts, 1) your surveyor can find your well. That I know 100 %. All surveyors have metal detectors or some call them pin finders to find steel pins that mark property boundaries. They are really a magnetic locator which picks up the magnetic field in steel. With the idea that the existing well is probably near the old house and looking to see what side the water line enters the old house (you can bet the well is not on the other side from where the water line comes into the house), have him start searching for that 20 foot length of 5 inch steel casing. These locators would pick up something that size from a distance of 5-10 feet away. He would probably find it within 5 -10 minutes of being on the property.
If its only 11 feet to stone and a total of 21 feet deep and 5 inches inside diameter, then go price and MEASURE the outside diameter of various 4 inch pvc pipe. Thickness vary on pvc due to the "schedule". Most common size is schedule 40, also PVC conduit is gray instead of the white of plumbing PVC. Purchase a 10 foot "stick" of whatever fits really good inside your casing and just line you casing with the new PVC, drop in an above ground "jet" style pump and you are in business. If I understand what you posted, you will find an 11 foot stick of casing and then the drill hole in the rock will be 5 inches. Most local health departments will check water quality for fecal content for a very small fee. If you are out on 10+ acres which has not been used in years and the water is below solid rock, I would be surprised if there is anything bad in the water. There are firms out there that will run a total profile on your water if you desire to determine if it has any of the many chemical in our world does and has produced. After living with well water for 60 + years, I truly believe good well water is more conductive to long term health and long life that the treated water most people consume every day in the US of A.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 May 2015 13:57 - Edited by: bldginsp
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If the well flow rate is actually 6 gallons per minute as you read on the unclear well report, that might be a problem. Most wells for houses are set up with a 10 gallon per minute pump that feeds a pressure tank, and if you are watering the lawn while the washer is running while Sis is in the shower and Bud is washing the dishes when you flush the toilet, the pump will sustain pumping at 10 gpm for as long as necessary, and could suck dry the well if the flow rate into the well is less than 10 gpm. But you could just use a 5gpm pump in which case it can't suck the well dry but also can't serve more than a few fixtures over a sustained period. You could get a storage tank that fills at 5 gpm and then have a separate pump to a pressure tank at 10-15 gpm pulling off the tank, but that complicates things.
Or, given that you have good water at 10 feet (lucky dog) you could drill a new well to a depth of 40-60 feet at a drill cost of $2-3000 which would hopefully give you a higher flow rate (not assured). Lot of options with water at 10 feet (lucky d**n dog).
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SteveN
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# Posted: 5 May 2015 14:34
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Littlecooner and bldginsp -thanks for your thoughts! If we can't find the well ourselves we will look at having the surveyor come out and locate it for us. They did a great job on the property lines and found those pins (and then marked them with paint and additional stakes). I'll keep the PVC in mind as well. At this point I would be happy with a hand pump. We will be roughing it in the "shabbin" for at least a couple of years until the main cabin gets built, and hand pumping water would be ok with me.
I noticed inside the old house that there is a pressurized holding tank... maybe they had that due to the flow rate? I'm new to all of this so there's lots I'm not sure of. In any regard, I won't be watering a lawn there - we will be keeping it as natural as we can, and that will mean forest floor or small meadow clearing - no lawns . If need be we can always get a holding tank too.
Thanks to you both for your thoughts! Very much appreciated!
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 5 May 2015 17:51 - Edited by: bldginsp
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The pressurized tank in the house is not a storage tank, it has an air bladder in it to maintain water pressure in the house. The pump pumps into the pressure tank until it reaches a certain pressure against the air bladder then shuts off. There should be a pressure switch there. The pipe leading into the pressure tank will point you toward the well, as should an electrical conduit supplying power to the pump.
Good luck!
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SteveN
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# Posted: 6 May 2015 07:51
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Thanks!
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SteveN
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# Posted: 13 May 2015 14:33
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A roofing question for any willing to provide some advice.
I have been working on some plans for construction/re-build of the "shabin" and am now working on the roof. Here's what I am thinking so far:
7/12 pitch (30.26deg)
2x6 rafters
19 trusses (16" OC)
Metal roofing over plywood
8' walls
Ridge height 11' 6"
Question... should I use a ridge board or ridge beam?
From a quick look, it looks like the old shed didn't use one and the roof is broken in the middle. I want my roof to last.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 May 2015 15:08
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If you are using trusses a ridge beam is not necessary. A beam is only necessary when the ridge is not otherwise supported, as in trusses or rafters with ties, such as ceiling joists nailed to the rafters.
A drawing would help.
My understanding is that minimum pitch of 8/12 is necessary for snow to reliably slide off. You got snow?
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SteveN
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# Posted: 14 May 2015 10:59
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We got snow... will look at 8/12 for sure. Still not at the drawing stage for the roof yet - just trying to get ideas figured out. I'll get some drawings up for feedback soon.
Thanks so much for your advice bldginsp!
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SteveN
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# Posted: 20 May 2015 12:06 - Edited by: SteveN
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So this past weekend we (my wife, mom, dad and I) went up to the property to do some cleaning up. We cut back lots of saplings around the driveway and culvert leading into the property, and cleaned up a lot of scrap metal that was thrown out behind the red shed. One of the previous owners apparently ran a roofing business and lots of his scrap was just dumped behind the shed. Now it's all nicely piled and ready for placing in a dumpster or pickup from a salvage/recycling company.
We also had a good walk around the property and saw that we have tons of white, red and painted trilliums growing everywhere we look. These are really nice flowers and I'm glad that we have them. Blackflies were out in full force but not as bad as I have seen before - thank goodness for Off!
After the clean up we enjoyed a tail-gate / picnic lunch, did some shooting with my wife's new pistol (it's a BB gun) and then enjoyed some time by the lake.
Life is good!
Scrap pile 1
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Scrap pile 2
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Lunch!
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cspot
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# Posted: 20 May 2015 21:12
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Just joined this forum the other day and I am by no means an expert, but will offer some opinions. I would check with power company with what it would cost to move the power. With the cost of running a generator it might be better to get your free move now and then pay for it to be moved to the house when you get it done. You said it will be a few years and with the way "life" can change it could end up being a few more. Unless it was really expensive you may want to consider that route.
You may want to do something call dowsing. It is explained in the link below, but 2 welding rods work well. I remember my Dad finding the well at the old farmhouse this way. It will located water streams underground so you may get reading in several places, but it may give you some spots for "test holes". Also if you see where it leaves the old house it will give you a sense of direction. Alot of times you can follow the old line by dowsing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing
Good luck. Our house is in the country, but we are currently looking for a hunting cabin in Ohio for recreational purposes. Still looking and haven't found our spot.
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cspot
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# Posted: 20 May 2015 21:14
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The other thing that I will add is most old houses the well was located very close to the house.
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SteveN
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# Posted: 21 May 2015 08:19
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Thanks for the advice cspot. I hope that we can find the well with little problem. I had a quick look at some places where it may be (close to the house) on this past visit and will bring a shovel and some other tools on the next trip. I can see where the grey water from the house goes into the ground, but the water line coming into the house doesn't make much sense to me. I followed it (black plastic tubing ...pvc?) out of the house and it runs into the the old barn behind the house where it connects to a large steel or aluminum holding tank. The holding tank isn't closed in, it has a completely open top. To be honest I don't know why anyone would use such a thing as it is quite open to contamination. Maybe it's not for water? Another mystery! lol
We've thought about divining rods and may give them a try - we have lots of water on the property though so it may give us lots of "hits".
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SteveN
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2015 10:16
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Update from this past weekend.
We managed to get up to the property this weekend. What a difference 3 weeks can make with vegetation growth! The house is barely visible from the driveway (see in photos attached) and the grass and ferns were up to about 4 feet high in some places. My dad and I went in with a Stihl gas-powered weed-wacker and cleaned up the driveway, and made a path to the shed. We started pulling "stuff" out of the the shed and sorting it. There was some metal (old cans mostly) and lots of old rotten wood. The wood we placed in a separate pile away from the metal pile we started on the last trip.
We got most of the big stuff out of the shed and decided the remainder would likely do better in a bin. Of course we don't have a bin so we'lll have to organize that for a later date. We also looked at pulling off some of the wood on the outside of the shed. We got started and realized that there was loose insulation between the outer wall and the panelling on the inside. Pulling the outer wall off would result in loose insulation everywhere - we need lots of bag... didn't have any of those either and were not sure if they would take it at the local landfill/dump. So, we went over to the old house and took some of the firewood that has been drying inside for many years to use at our campsite down the road (it burned well - nice and hot). We made a quick stop at the local landfill and got all the info we needed for disposal of waste. Lots of stuff I can drop there for free, but some has charges associated (shingles, construction waste, mattresses, etc). I've attached a few photos. I'm going to organize a bin to be delivered and get ready for some heavy work there in a few weeks. I've got the whole month on July off and hope to get lots done up there!
Driveway before grass cutting
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House hidden by vegetation
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Living room in the house
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Me cleaning the shed
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SteveN
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2015 10:18
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Here's a couple more photos of the shed. One is before clearing the vegetation, the other is after clearing a path / work area.
Shed overgrown with vegetation
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Shed cleared path/work area
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SteveN
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2015 08:33 - Edited by: SteveN
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I managed to get up to the property for a few days of work in July. The weather was hot but for the most part dry with no rain. Mosquitoes weren't too bad for the most part. My dad and father-in-law came out to help as well.
We managed to get the shed down, but the roof still has to be dismantled and scrapped. The shed was in too rough of a state to try to get the roof off while the walls were still up so we stripped the walls down to studs with a few supporting posts added to the middle of the main room. Once it was stripped down, it took only a rope and a little pull to get it to collapse. It came down quick and didn't shift too far off of the floor (almost straight down).
I was surprised at some of the findings we had while stripping the shed down to the studs:
1. Insulation types inclduded fiberglass batts, cardboard boxes and wood chips / sawdust
2. The oldest thing we found in the shed was what appears to be a stone axe-head (we kept it)
3. Cardboard boxes used for insulation/draft sealing dated back to 1964
4. In some spots old vinyl flooring was used as vapor barrier for insulation.
5. There must have been a huge discount sale on nails - EVERYTHING had waaaaay too many nails in it!
We hauled off 3 truckloads of scrap metal, 5 truckloads of construction waste, and 20 large garbage bags to the dump. I figure that we will have at least 2 loads of shingles and another 6 or 7 loads of construction waste before it's all gone. Hope to get it don in August to September.
Stripping out the Shed
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Discussing Rope Placement
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Down on the Ground
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SteveN
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2016 09:15
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After almost a year with no updates I thought I would drop a note on how things are going with the property. Since last fall we didn't have much time to work on things. This spring and so far this summer we've managed to get the shed/cabin completely torn down and off to the local dump. In total (so far) the shed/cabin took 10 loads of "construction waste", 3 loads of scrap metal, and 20 large garbage bags. I expect we will still have another 15-20 garbage bags, one load of shingles and one load of scrap metal until the site is "clean".
Attached is the most recent photo of the site where the shed/cabin sat. I was surprised to find so much rubble underneath the floor. Lots of broken brick and cinderblock. The flooring was all tongue and groove and a bit of work to get pulled up. The joists were in pretty rough shape with a lot of rot. Some were still in good shape but so riddled with nails that they were unusable. We did manage to salvage some rough cut planks (measured about 1"x12"x12') that we will be using to make a target backstop for our pellet guns, and also a small "fort" in the woods for my step-son.
We are pretty sure that we will build our "shabin" (shed/cabin) in the same spot, with future plans of a bigger build further back in the centre of the property later. For now I would like to just have a place that I can use during hunting season for shelter, or as a place to warm up if I decide to do some ice fishing in the winter.
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