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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 11:24
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Now that I have hot and cold running water it's time to start using the well. It was there when I bought the property, housed in a small shed. Measured about 50 ft. deep, water was at about 10' yesterday. Took a gander inside, yuck. The pipe goes down some distance, don't know how far. I did get one of those home test kits a year ago and it tested clean except for high minerals, and water I have pumped out before was brownish.
How do I proceed? Does it need to be scrubbed or otherwise cleaned? Bleach? I have pumped out of it before for watering, it empties out pretty quick but fills back up in a day.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 11:50
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you need to get a sanitary seal for the top of the well to keep the spiders out .
You will need to know the inside diameter of the well casing and the size and type of suction hose you have before shopping .
Add a cup of bleach, install your seal and suction line , pump it for 3 days intermittently as not to drain the well completely , Should be good but retest if suspect .
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 12:09 - Edited by: bldginsp
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Bleach in wells is controversial. I recently had a pump installed in my new well, I asked the well contractor if I should put in bleach, he said no. "There's nothing down there that will hurt you" he said. Which is true, but whenever you put something into the well like a pump or pipe you stand the possibility of introducing bacteria. Any health department will tell you to use bleach because that is "standard procedure" and they have to recommend it. With my well I flushed it til it was clear, no bleach, and began drinking it. No problems.
With a shallow well such as yours, there is greater possibility of contaminated surface water getting in. But this, if it happens, will be a persistent thing and a one time application of bleach won't change that.
I would consider flushing it repeatedly with no bleach. Use bleach to be on the safe side, and if you do, flush the bleached water through the entire plumbing system to clean it all out, then continue flushing til the bleach is gone.
The rust on the steel casing looks bad but is not a health hazard. I suggest you leave it alone and just flush the well. If you are getting a lot of rust particles in the water you can put on a filter. I'm getting a few rust particles in my water from my new well casing, or it might just be leftovers from the manufacturing process, anyway not enough to matter.
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littlesalmon4
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 16:10
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Home test kit..... Do these test just biologics or do they test heavy metals as well. I had mime professionally tested. I did not want to feed may family a steady diet of lead, arsenic, cadmium or any other cancer causing agent.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 17:00 - Edited by: Steve_S
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Fully flush the well by constantly running the water. If there is no cap, then you need a seal cap etc... It cannot be open to air. if you clean the casing and install anything in to the well (ie pump) then you have to shock it to kill any possible introduced bacteria. That can be done with pure chlorine bleach or chlorine 'pills' (look like mothballs, come from well drillers & plumbing houses).
I have shocked my wells a few times, volume of chlorine is relative to well depth / water volume. My current 280' well has been shocked when drilled, shocked again when the pump was dropped in which then did a full 5 flushes and again another shock. The water has remained clear, odourless and sweet... I will be shocking again in July and that should be it.... The reason I am shocking it again, is because my current use is minimal and occasional (for 2 years now) but come August 1st I'm there 24/7 and I am nuts about water being clean... I drop 6 chlorine pills in and cycle it out.
** Note, my property is surrounded by bush & farm with grazing cattle and the normal wild varmints & critters as expected and I'm on a ridge but just below are farms with lots of fertilizers etc... and some people have had issues in the region, so ounce of prevention applied. I did have a property were the water went bad due to farm pollution... that entire aquifer went bad in a 5 year period and now 25 years later, people are still on bottles and very few raise any animals there now, mostly just cropping that can be done.
EDIT: I just wanted to mention that the Chlorine Pills are apparently not available as a 'consumer product' so they may be difficult to get. That may be a regional limitation but not sure as it could be used as a component used for nefarious purposes.
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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 19:01
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Sanitary seal, first I heard of these, thanks. Is there something special about them that a tight fitting home made cover won't do? So the rust on the pipe is no big deal? I guess they all rust eventually.
Test kit, I don't remember them testing for the heavy metals mentioned, maybe it depends on the kit.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 22:13 - Edited by: bldginsp
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The well caps accommodate several things. They have threaded connections so you can easily connect conduit for pump wires or a down pipe for a jet pump. Also they have breather holes with fine mesh filters on them to keep stuff out. You need to let air in as water is displaced. I guess you could come up with something yourself, the main idea is just to keep stuff out. But the caps are less than $100 and make it easy.
Dean Bennett well supply in Denver has a bunch of them. They sell on the internet.
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old243
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2016 22:14
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paulz, not sure where you are located. In Ontario we can pick up a test kit free. Follow the collection procedure, return to a pick up point , in our case the local hospital. The health unit will pick up , test and forward you the results.
Probably a pool supply store would have the clorine pucks, for sale. old243
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2016 10:19
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I pretty confident with the water quality, tested OK a year ago and neighbors around me have no problems. I have been carrying drinking water from my house out and only using the water tank water for toilet and sink, and soon shower.
Speaking of the water tank, my 500 gallon tank is about 300 ft. from the well, and 100ft. higher in elevation. I'm not planning any automatic filling system, now power at the well. My HF 6hp gas pump is supposed to have 100ft. of lift and 30ft. of suction, probably not both at the same time. Also have a submersible electric pump I can pump from the well to ground level first using a portable generator, as I expect I will need.
Sounds complicated but I thought I would try what I have. What's the better option? What size pipe would you recommend running up the hill to the tank? I have enough 1 inch PVC to run the line already.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2016 10:45 - Edited by: Just
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it makes no difference to the pump as the head pressure is the same with any size pipe . 1 in. will work fine . The gas pump may do the hole thing try it first . You will need a foot valve on the suction line
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2016 13:04
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Find out if your submersible pump will pump up to the tank. Do you know the hp and flow rate of the pump?
Pipe size does matter- smaller pipe increase the total head calculation. If you are pumping around 10 gpm or less 1 inch is fine.
Best option is the simplest one- rather than using two pumps. You probably have a total of about 150 ft of total dynamic head (total rise plus pipe resistance) which isn't much. Could be one or the other pump will do it alone. But you have to know the specs on the pumps and get the charts that show their designed range of use
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paulz
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2016 11:35 - Edited by: paulz
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Yesterday I started the cleaning process. Used my submersible pump (23ft head lift, doubt it will reach my tank)
http://www.harborfreight.com/16-hp-submersible-utility-pump-1350-gph-68422.html
to pump 150 gallons out of the well into 50 gallon barrels. Water level started at about 10ft., got down to about 40 and stayed there with still a decent flow out of the garden hose. So I was unable to pump it dry. Poured a gallon of bleach down and capped it for now.
Water got a bit cleaner but still black (ignore the peanut butter). Going back out in a few days and I guess pump it down again. On the bright side I am going to use the 150 gallons to wet down my dirt road  .
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2016 15:42
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It's good that you let it sit for a bit, once you flush it out things should clear up a bit, it may take a little while (2 or 3 full flushes worth) to lose the chlorine smell / taste. Sounds like you have a good well with good recovery.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2016 20:33
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Thanks Steve, pumped out another 150 gallons today. This time I was able to rest my pump on the bottom of the well and it still worked. Water very black from there, sediment I guess. It did clear up some. I'll do it again but there may be no way to get clear water from the very bottom.
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sparky30_06
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2016 12:47
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don't let your pump rest on the bottom of the well bring it up several feet, you will find the water will be different at different levels as things settle out
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jul 2016 19:50
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Thanks Sparky. Yesterday I pumped out another 100 gallons, this time with the pump a few feet off the bottom. Water looks pretty good, time to start laying some pipe up the hill. I thought I had some 1" PVC but it turns out it's only 3/4" and only about half the amount I need. What about that black plastic thin wall pipe that comes in 100' rolls, would that be OK?
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sparky30_06
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2016 06:45
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stay away from the thin black plastic in rolls, it will work but you will be replacing it in a few years.
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2016 08:21
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The black plastic in rolls will work great and last 30-40 years if you remove it from the UV of the sun as in bury the product. It also comes in 250 rolls, heck of a lot cheaper than PVC and easy to work. Double clamp the connections (stainless steel automotive radiator clamps). Heat each connection with torch or heat gun, press the fitting in the warm and pliable pipe and double clamp over the warm pipe with socket and ratchet. It will never leak and this stuff will flex some if the freeze gets to the water. I have 1000 feet of this stuff on my property and have helped install 5,000-7,000 feet for friends, etc. One you use it , you will wonder why you ever considered pvc
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2016 08:24
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O, also forgot to tell you, the black poly comes in different pressure ratings so you can do the "heavy duty" if you so desire
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2016 10:52 - Edited by: paulz
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Update on this and a quandary:
My well has sat capped since shocking it and pumping out about 1,000 gallons back in July. The water looked pretty good after that and I thought I was ready to use it when I got a pump system in place...
So this week I pumped out about 200 gallons and was surprised to find the water again very black. When I started pumping the water was about 10' below ground and dropped as I pumped about another 10-15'. The well is 40' deep and I pumped from just below the water level, nowhere near the bottom. In a white 5 gallon bucket full you cannot see the bottom. Don't know what it is, just dirt I suppose. The ground in this are is dense forest valley floor, not rocky, looks like dark planting soil. As in the photo below.
Does a well have to be pumped more frequently than every few months to get clean water?
Disappointed, I decided to take a look at another option on my property another 50' further away from my cabin. This thing (cauldron?) has been there who knows how many years, probably 60 years when a house occupied the property. It's about 6' in diameter and goes down 20', which looks to be a bit below the creek floor off to the left. The creek is dry now (but will soon be flowing for the winter) but this thing always has water in it. It has sat uncapped. I pumped 300 gallons out of it and the water was a lot more clear.
Would this be a viable option for a water source?
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2016 16:24
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The water from it may be cleaner but because of its size it's more likely to get contaminated from above. You'd need a good cover that keeps insects out.
Your well may produce cleaner water if used more frequently. I have the same issue with my new well, the water is cloudy at first after not pumping for weeks, then it clears up. I think water comes into it from two directions, above where there is clay, and the bottom which is in bedrock. The water from the clay is cloudy but seeps in slowly. The bedrock water flows at a high rate and is crystal clear. When sitting for weeks, I guess enough of the clay water gets in to cloud it. Once I get there and flush it for 1/2 hour the water is very clean, coming from the bedrock below. The next day, after the flush, the water is still clean. It's only after it sits that its cloudy.
As well, because your well sat for a long time unused, perhaps it collected sediment in the well and in the surrounding soil. Daily use keeps this flushed. I'd say keep flushing. Consider a lower flow rate pump to guarantee you don't ever empty the well, and you can leave it flushing without worrying. I bet it will clean up
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2016 22:02
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Thanks bldginsp.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2016 07:19
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Paul, I believe that shallow well (The Cauldron) is Ground Water and I would not consider that potable and certainly would not drink from it... Watering flowers or bushes sure but not food crops !
It's not unusual to have a well get foggy, if it isn't used regularly but that usually takes a while. Once pumped it should clear up again and be safe to use. I would flush & shock again before full use and then keep using it. Some silt in a low use well is not unexpected and sediment filters can cope with that nicely... Like the Rainfresh Cartridge Units.
Tests... A couple of simple tests to do as well.
1) Before Flushing again. Fill a large clean clear glass jar (Big Pickle Jar) with the current water and set aside to allow whatever to settle. Helps to see how it separates & if it has layers, sheen etc,.... so a Very Clean Jar ! Cap it and leave it for the day. *
2) After flushing and when the water appears clear & before shocking, take 'another' jar of water, cap and set aside. To see if anything still settles.... *
* don't leave in sun and allow at least 2 hours for all particles to settle. Don't move the bottles when looking, so put them inside somewhere you can observe the contents without disturbing it. BTW, put a white piece of paper under the jar's, for a clean reflection.
3) Prior to shocking, you may want to take a proper water sample for Lab Tests. I forget where you are but here I can take the Sample Bottle provided by our Health Unit back to them and they test it for free. Fortunately the lab it goes to is one that does the full 75 point analysis. REF & good info here too re shocking etc.... http://www.eohu.ca/segments/topics_e.php?segmentID=3&topicID=50
I'm not sure if your are going for Full Time, Part Time or Occasional use on that property, so what you do & your usage will guide what you need to do to keep your well healthy. You may need sediment filters & even UV filter's or other. Sediment Filter's are wise, especially in low use well and new wells till they fully flush (a year at least).
Do you know what the bedrock is and roughly how deep down it is ?
Is there a Well Database or Registry that tells you info about when & who drilled that well, depth and data ? That would be most useful to have.
Here we have a Provincial Well Database the public can access. It tells you everything like Who drilled with what Method, depth, flow rates, soil & rock composition & layers etc. That can also answer many questions you may have... Knowing the layers may explain what some of that sediment is.
Sorry if I repeated something from previous posts, haven't re-read the entire thread.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2016 09:41
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I've been watching this thread with curiosity since your original post because I've heard of many well water issues, but none like this black water condition you describe. But I'm with Steve_S, and I would put a little more effort into figuring out what is causing the "black-out".
When I read your update yesterday my thoughts were very much like Steve_S's above. Get a few samples of that water and let's do some simple tests. Here is what I would do:
1. Again like Steve_S suggested in his "1)", collect a sample and let it sit undisturbed. Does the black settle out? How fast?
2. Collect a second sample and mix with a small amount of bleach, does it remove the black?
3. On a third sample, run it through a simple coffee filter. Does that capture whatever is making the water black?
The results of these simple tests would determine what I would do next.
Some have suggested sending a sample off to a lab and getting a formal water test done. I agree with that idea, but know that if a sample is too "contaminated" the lab will not be able to test the water as they typically would because the contaminate concentrate will damage their equipment. But armed with the results collected above any lab "worth their salt" should be able to work out how to test your sample.
I'm not affiliated with any lab, but if you wanted to discuss water testing further and need a place to start I have recently had good experiences with KAR Labs in Michigan (karlabs.com). I used them to test well water at both my home and my cabin. They do typical home-owner water testing, but also appear to do a lot of commercial/industrial work so I'm sure they could handle your testing. There website has says how to contact them, and based on the follow-up I received after my tests I'm sure you could reach someone to speak with.
keep us posted.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 21 Oct 2016 22:07
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Thanks guys, good ideas. Ok, back to the well. Today I started by pumping from just under the water level, about 10 feet down. Water came out very clear. Then I went to 20 feet and it got darker. Here it is from 30 feet. Went to the bottom, 40 feet, even worse. I collected some in pickle jars to perform the tests you suggested. I then continued to pump out 30 gallons from 30 feet and it remained dark. If I continue pumping it may clear up some like back in July but we don't use that much as part time cabin dwellers and I'm afraid it will just darken up again.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2016 01:55
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That's interesting that it's almost perfectly clear at the top and so dirty not so far down. I agree with the idea of trying to determine what the black is and where it's coming from, but ultimately you need professional analysis done, or at least advice from a local person with experience in local wells. Call the local health department and see if you can bring samples to one of their inspectors, he probably knows cause he's seen it all. Alternatively, take it to a local well driller.
I bought a one gallon clear glass bottle to test the clarity of my water. Looking through it at the blue sky seems to be the best indicator of clarity (or 'turbidity',as they call it). But what I found was that I was, as much, observing the clarity of the glass itself which is not perfectly clear, it seems to have a slight tint. The clear water from the well seems to be clearer than the glass.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2016 06:44
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Paul, I am concerned with that water. Clear on top, but not as you go deeper and that looks black from the pictures.
The black is often caused by the mineral manganese, a naturally occurring metal that can cause health problems if ingested in large enough amounts over a long period of time. Especially at risk are babies and people with liver problems.
An odorless black tint to water is usually due to manganese. Manganese behaves a lot like iron does except it oxidizes a lot slower. Water stored for a couple days or more will turn black if there are high levels of manganese in the water. Manganese is more often found in groundwater than in surface water. Sometimes it wont be noticeable in the water. It will however be noticeable as a black stain on appliances and reservoir walls.
Doc on Iron & Manganese & purifying it:
https://www.scdhec.gov/HomeAndEnvironment/Docs/IronMagn.pdf
From the American Ground Water Trust:
https://agwt.org/content/manganese-problems
From Cornell University and excellent, well covered article covering testing and the types of contaminants etc... WORTH A GOOD READ !!!
http://waterquality.cce.cornell.edu/testing.htm
I had a "Greensand Filter" in one of my homes and while it works to clear things up nicely without adding salt, it is:
A) Very Expensive to operate, with the pump & the sand itself is far from cheap,
B) Very nasty to handle (the dust is dangerous if inhaled).
C) Happy I will never have to use that kind of kit again !
FAST TEST:
Fill one of the clear thoroughly cleaned Pickle Jars with that "clear water" and set aside so it can remain undisturbed and leave without lid so air can get at it... May take a day or two and should start changing colour, darkening to black. IF IT DOES - likelihood of Manganese = high. Faster it changes, higher the concentration.
There are commercial test kits designed for this... Hach makes several versions I paid $120 for a kit about 10 years ago which tested for many things including Manganese but they have simpler ones that are more limited. May be worth looking into - for peace of mind if anything....
I found this one for you which is much cheaper (The hach big kit like I got is now $180+ eeks) but this is more reasonable
http://www.filterwater.com/p-211-manganese-check-water-test-kit.aspx They have other's as well for more testing if you want.
While these will give you good indications, there is no substitute for a good Lab Test that cover's at least 75 potential contaminants...
Lot's of info BUT when it comes to water, I am quite particular about it... Especially after having been a victim of contamination long ago...
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2016 17:45 - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks again guys. Lots to digest but just wanted to add these two photos. The two jars were clear and clean, the dark one came from the dark bucket and the other the clear bucket. First photo was right after filling them yesterday. Second photo from today, already the dark jar has settled quite a bit. I will try more of the testing suggested.
Oh, on the smell, smells like sulfur.
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DaveBell
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2016 18:45 - Edited by: DaveBell
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1. Your well hit a coal seam.
2. Your well hit oil. (the black stuff isn't floating so not likely)
3. Someone dumped something in the well.
Dump most of the water out then dump the black stuff into something and let it dry out. Then you might be able to tell what it is.
What state and county is this located?
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2016 19:12 - Edited by: DaveBell
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Quoting: paulz Oh, on the smell, smells like sulfur.
Maybe someone dumped activated charcoal (or plain charcoal) down the well to get rid of the sulfur smell?
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