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Small Cabin Forum / Properties / Building a cabin in ontario (permits and fees)
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RobToth
Member
# Posted: 31 Jul 2013 21:24
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http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page2103.aspx

silverwaterlady
Member
# Posted: 31 Jul 2013 22:33 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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As I said in my previous post we needed a permit and got one. Not a building permit but as the above article states a zoning permit and it had to be approved by the board.

We had to draw up a map of our property and the area where we were building our cabin,shed and out buildings and pay fees for each structure. We also had a inspector come out and run a perk test. We passed.

dan mielke
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2013 21:55
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hello just found this site
think everyone should know that the on. gov. is in the process of changing all the rules for building in rural or northern properties
no more private roads to be allowed
no more water access only properties
limit development on current private roads
the list goes on the ontario gov. and county of hastings are now in a fight with the reeve of wollaston [part of hastings]
the reeve wants to open up the lands in the area for building but the county is saying no more development on private roads to lakes or hunt camps ect.
everyone better get their buildings up /land divided or what ever you want to do before our NANNY gov. puts us all into old age homes
because we can't take care of ourselves or know what we want for ourselves
check out bancroft times week of nov. 10 -16 2013 entire article in paper

villager
Member
# Posted: 31 Dec 2013 14:21
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Quoting: dan mielke
check out bancroft times week of nov. 10 -16 2013 entire article in paper


I've been away from the site for too long while pursuing the village plans ....
Thanks Dan for this news !!!
I could not find the article on line . could you copy it to this site?
Are you sure this is province-wide??

villager
Member
# Posted: 31 Dec 2013 14:38
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Quoting: RobToth
If a land is zoned, than it is in an organized township. Forested zoned would be like RR1. That means only one single family dwelling can be built on it


Hi Rob.
For sure it is in an unorg.township. Re zoning, i just looked at the county map copy at the agent's, and it is marked on several of the parcels RES. and all around it on 3 sides , marked Crown land.
Maybe i should have written more clearly : I didn;t mean rural residential....just that it's "rural". and on the map it says res.

The neighbor across the road did'nt need a building permit , but had to comply with the OBC.... and only had to get a septic and hydro permit/inspection.
He said i could build what i want . He's a builder.

ursixc9
Member
# Posted: 7 Jul 2014 11:22
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Quoting: morganplus8
morganplus8


Hi morganplus8! I'm not sure if you still follow this thread but I'm looking into buying a piece of land like you in Lakeshore zoned RW2-H6. Just wanted to get some advice from you if possible. Thanks!

Wilbour
Member
# Posted: 7 Jul 2014 15:10
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Quoting: villager
He said i could build what i want . He's a builder.

Just a word of advice... I have heard from many people who assure me of this but the township will say otherwise. The truth lies somewhere in between.

morganplus8
Member
# Posted: 11 Jul 2014 14:26
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I happen to be around today! I still come back to this thread for its great information. My personal project has come a long way. What is it that I can help you with?

ursixc9
Member
# Posted: 11 Jul 2014 14:31
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Quoting: morganplus8
I happen to be around today! I still come back to this thread for its great information. My personal project has come a long way. What is it that I can help you with?


I would just like to know what is the foundation for your deck and how elaborate the blueprint must be for submission to CA.
Also, I want to understand more about the holding zone situation in lakeshore. RW2-H6, H3 or what have you. Not sure about the difference.

I'll be going to the townhall meeting on July 15 regarding holding zones. Just wanted to get as much information as I can before I buy lots.

Thanks!

morganplus8
Member
# Posted: 13 Jul 2014 12:26
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I don't have my copy of my drawings available to post at the moment. I used 10 - 4" x 6" x 3/16" x 27 ft long posts to set my building and dock out in the water. Seven posts are in the water and three of them are only 13 feet long and embedded into the slope of the shoreline. Nothing makes contact with the upper level of the lot so that the Town of Lakeshore has no say and what goes on with my dock system. I applied for and got a permit to protect the shoreline with rock for 65 feet; to pound pilings into the water on my own land and to build a shed that is less than 108 squ.ft. at the base. I added a 10 ft x 16 ft. under 6 ft high, living space above the lower structure to "store my boat". All of this was approved for the bargain amount of $ 250.00 for the permit from the LTVCA. I drew up some simple sketch of the lot size showing how much of my land was under the water, I then drew up a side profile of the property to show how the dock hangs out over the water and included the protected blanket and rock structure along the shoreline. I ended my request by telling them that I would use recycled pressure treated lumber on the gazebo deck. She liked everything, though it was the best presentation she had seen in a very long time.

The thing you need to know about the "H" is limited to the July 15th meeting. They will pass an amendment that will remove the septic option from lots and replace it with a new rule that states that all future projects must be connected to a main. They are after the Ontario Government for funds to run new pipes in Lakeshore and they are currently at Stage 4 of 5 regarding the application.

In closing, I would warn you that the Town of Lakeshore controls the "plain" of the land, nothing more, the LTVCA controls the shoreline and everything under it that is part of your lot. The Fisheries controls everything past your under water lot outward. So make certain you know where the boundaries of your lot are, everyone is given some water frontage but you need to find out how much YOU get! I also understand that the LTVCA is very slow in issuing permits these days, one family waited 11 months to get their dock permit and a building permit. Good luck and let me know if I can provide additional information. Have a look at our property as of yesterday.
A shot from across the canal.
A shot from across the canal.


ursixc9
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2014 07:26
Reply 


That's awesome morganplus8! Thanks so much for the info. One more question, which lawyer did you use when you had disagreement with the town?

morganplus8
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2014 10:40
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I used Robert Jutras for my legal work but most of the argument I assembled was done directly with the Town of Lakeshore. I purchased the latest copy of the Building Code for Ontario and printed out the work-in-progress from the Council meetings while they were developing the Final Draft of the Master Plan. I could see that they were adopting the same Plan that all Towns were migrating to, so I had plenty of details and arguments from others across the Province. I then requested "text" examples of the basis for their restrictive stance against us at Lakeshore re: Zone "H" and argued with every claim they made against us. I then discovered that their jurisdiction ends at the top of the shoreline. I finally sited over 100 cases where those expensive homes were breaking the law too. My lawyer was helpful and we really hit it off so I was able to get great information at minimal cost.

In the end, I also discovered a couple of more things about that land that probably no one knows about, I'll challenge the Town one more time if I feel I need to do anything more to my land. I'm really happy with my latest conversation with the Town of Lakeshore, in particular, Mr. Storey, a brilliant man who helped me understand completely, the latest amendment addition to the Plan. He gave me the best explanation I have ever read of legalise!! Ha! I'm currently looking forward to building my next shed which will be 13.5 ft x 8.0 ft and house a modern washroom for our girls. GL

Wilbour
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2014 11:41
Reply 


I work in law enforcement and believe in staying true to the law. I get annoyed when the town tells you you cannot do something when you are lawfully able to do so. Overstepping their bounds for their own agenda is wrong. As I have stated before, government needs to focus on the needs of those who cannot fend for themselves. Most of us just want to be left alone.

morganplus8
Member
# Posted: 14 Jul 2014 12:51
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Quoting: Wilbour
I work in law enforcement and believe in staying true to the law. I get annoyed when the town tells you you cannot do something when you are lawfully able to do so. Overstepping their bounds for their own agenda is wrong. As I have stated before, government needs to focus on the needs of those who cannot fend for themselves. Most of us just want to be left alone.


Thanks, I couldn't agree with you more. We purchased our land with the understanding that we could use it for occasional visits knowing that we couldn't actually build anything on it. But for 20 years, there have been others who have camped on their lot, pitched a tent, brought a trailer etc., quiet people who aren't up past 10:00 PM. Then the building inspector showed up and gave us notices to get off the land for good and take down those sheds that have been there for up to 20 years.

I planned to build a shed, (had it 1/2 done), with my father-in-law so that all of the family would have a place to go to for fun at the lake. In the Spring I got a letter from the Town telling me I had 6 days to remove all of my stuff from the property. My father-in-law passed away that day and I requested some additional time to deal with that loss. They said they would extend it by 3 weeks and then they turned around and enforced the letter! I had a couple of days to drag my shed onto my dock and satisfy the terms of the letter. So that is when I researched the heck out of the law and found out they can't say or do anything as long as there are no assets touching the main plain of the lot. They could stand there and watch me complete my shed and build an even bigger dock!

The inspector shook my hand and walked away and we were free to do whatever we wanted. So I told my neighbours to take their letter to the Town office and ask whether they need to move all of their assets onto their dock too? The letters were retracted and we never heard from them again. The law is such that both the Town and the Ontario Building Code measure everything on the "plain" so the idea is to have your assets on a dock or up a tree!

There is basically no limit to how big your dock can be as the LTVCA likes the shade off the shoreline so they'll let you go to the Fisheries limit. My dock is 25 ft wide and 60 feet long and growing.

Thanks for your comment.

Pheonix
Member
# Posted: 9 Oct 2014 13:57
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I need to know if I should buy property with road frontage or in the bush? Im going full off grid living in north ontario! Im finding the scariest thing about it is being alone. Im gonna do 40-100 achers and have a cow for milk and chicken for eggs. Plz any advise would be great. Ty

jean
Member
# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 18:22
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Hello, just like all of you we had the same idea. Move from Toronto to a place up north. We looked at land but because of all the stipulations etc., we opted to purchase 27 acres with a cabin that had a basement, well, septic, electricity, wood stove. it is 485 sq. feet. We now use only wood from our property to heat and we have been here for 4 years. We have not done anything to the building other than repairs and we are living just fine. We plan on turning it into a hobby farm. We have 13 chickens for food and eggs, a garden and the next step is a goat or two. My suggestion to those looking for a get away and possibly a place to live cheaply is to purchase property already with a building. This way you have a driveway, possibly a well and possibly a septic. Check out the condition of both before doing anything. There are many properties cheap like this. The building may be crap but like our we just fixed it cheaply. It can be very expensive to put in driveways, electrical, sewage etc but if those are there and the building is ready to fall down you still have half the battle solved. We picked ours up for $118,000 we have internet as well and after 4 years lively cheaply and with no neighbors close by at all we made it happen. Last year around the corner from us a property for 65000.00 well and septic this was july of 2014. house was crap but septic and well was good and driveway was in and 4 acres of bush. it can be done.

cabinfloat
Member
# Posted: 9 Mar 2016 23:15
Reply 


Quoting: morganplus8
I like the idea of a house or houseboat at my huge dock but I can't sleep in it over night in my Township without a principle building on the land. So we aren't allowed to stay in our cabins and I can't sleep on my boat even though the boat is in the water which has nothing to do with the plain of the land. The Township was specific when it came to boats to make certain that we don't place large boats or trailers on barges on our docks. The law is a funny thing, I can take my boat out to the Fisheries water which in my case is 17 feet off my dock and sleep in it for years.


Hi, I've been reading though old posts and came to your comment above after a picture was posted upthread by exumadoug showing a floating home.

you say you cant live in such a thing unless it were moored 17 feet from your dock. Do you know if this is just in your township and zoning. I've run across all the code restrictions leading me to seriously consider a floating cottage on yearround Nydock pontoons. Houseboats in navigational water seems to be all over the Trent waterways and lakes. So, do you or any other readers know of regulations across Ontario forbidding livaboards mooring a boat of the shore of their own land. I have 150 feet shoreline acre in Haliburton highlands.

Johny
Member
# Posted: 18 Apr 2016 13:15
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I am was about to buy land in Bruce Peninsula. I am so happy that I found before buying it. This property is about 4 Acr. There is a 400 square foot Bunkie on this property and also a wood shed. Bunkie does not have water or septic. Are there any laws stopping me from renovating this bunkie? and is it possible to get a permit to connect water, and septic to the bunkie? I want to use it a summer only place.

Just
Member
# Posted: 18 Apr 2016 13:31
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Call the local township office and ask ,no point in guessing..
A wise thing to do before you by .

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 18 Apr 2016 16:01
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I've mentioned certain areas and here is one example where you can be a free building happy camper....

I looked at this property before during my land hunting but at that time it was a For Sale By Owner and some things hadn't been resolved which is now all done. IT IS A DEAL and while someone might freak because part of it was a sand / gravel pit (now a pond of sorts) the rest of it quitter nice.

We went furtling around yesterday on the back roads (yep, should have taken the 4x4) and came across several gems. Areas (South of Algonquin Park, near Barry's Bay) Combermere, Quadeville and Foymount has many properties as For Sale by Owner and some listed with agents. There are many "wood lots" which have been used for forestry ... some are currently cut others not... Usually ones that have been recently cut will sell for less as it's 25 years before they can be cut again... NB Some of these properties have been replanted with red & white pine & Tamarac (Larch).

These are areas which have NOT been infected by the Urbanized mentality, so you can build small, recreational or hunt camps which there are many.

Viperedpete1958
Member
# Posted: 27 Aug 2016 20:48
Reply 


Hi sir would it not have been to your advantage to check everything out before this purchase and finding out later? I am new and looking to buy land so hopefully i can learn to save me headaches ty

RLamoureux
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2017 18:11
Reply 


tombiosis
Hey,
Check my recent posts. I'm in Brudenell, not far from Griffith. My wife and I are plugging away at off-grid cabin building. I'm a mechanical/structural engineer with experience in geotech, solar electric, and Code compliance. Don't hesitate to hit me up.
Cheers
R

Breezy_d01
Member
# Posted: 6 Dec 2017 13:51
Reply 


bushbunkie

I love the look of your bunkie. I see that this post is several years old now, and you not get this. I have a piece of waterfront land in stokes bay, and am looking into doing a similar thing. I'd love to pick your brain if you do get this.

Thanks!
Brianne
Roth.breezy@gmail.com

bushbunkie
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2017 22:59
Reply 


Hi a Breezy....yup...been quite a journey! And it continues....you can check out our progress on my thread “100 sq ft cabin on Bruce peninsula ...southwestern Ontario”. We finally but up a cabin After 8 years...but really enjoyed our bunkie years as we were getting started. Happy to share any info if it helps....we just love the peace and quiet up there..Stokes bay nice area...we have 2,2 aces of bush up the road from a Lake Huron.

ftbuild
Member
# Posted: 13 Apr 2018 13:30
Reply 


Hello all,
Another Ontarian here contemplating buying land and building a recreational cabin... only to learn of the evil Ontario laws...
I am reading through the threads on this forum trying to figure out how much of a risk it can be to get away with a cabin. Some say that unless a neighbor complains - no one is going to harass you. Others are saying that enforcement is in effect and you can't hide a needle in a haystack.
Unorg township route is impractical in my case, as it will be too far of a drive to the closest one. So i basically have two options: abandon the idea altogether or take a risk, buy land, build, make friends with all and hope that I won't be bothered. The risk will never go away however... if anyone's curious, I am hoping to do it in Algonquin west area (between Alg and hw11). maybe local residents have some opinions on how good or bad it gets there... at least its not Bruce peninsula with its horror stories.
The other thing is, I wonder, to drive onto property do I necessarily have to install a driveway off a maintained road? Because that may be another point of vulnerability for someone looking to inspect.
I wonder if there are any loopholes out there, going legal and worry free would be best... but not happening ((

Kamn
Member
# Posted: 13 Apr 2018 14:45
Reply 


Hello ftbuild,
check to see what the bylaws of the area are, because there are a few small differences from town to town.
Example, we have 100 acres in North Kawartha and the bylaw says with that size property we can build a "hunt camp" which can be essentially any size BUT we do need building permits and septic ( I haven't looked to see if they are OK with a composting toilet)
And to be honest, it is better to go legal than potentially get fined by the township. We had the township find out about us because of some snitch.
Either way, things can be done cheaper than you think
And, if in the next election we dump the liberals and have a conservative government, I know that Andrew Scheer was talking about changing the laws on land ownership giving owners more rights than exist currently, which could have a trickle down effect on what we can and cant do on OUR land.

I hope that helps a little

silverwaterlady
Member
# Posted: 13 Apr 2018 16:15 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
Reply 


I doubt the neighbors whom are paying their fair share of taxes are going to be nice and just not say anything.
It's not just a government money grab.
The taxes we are assessed help pay for garbage pickup and the town hall.
Even though we put out only 8 bags of garbage per year and went to at the most two get togethers at the town hall I would not try to skate by and not pay taxes.
The full time residents need these services.

Not a very good way to start off a stress free cabin life.
Looking over your shoulder, not being able to insure your cabin.
Than after you get caught, paying assessed back taxes for all the years you did not. The municipality will determine how long your cabin was there and won't care if you say it wasn't there as long as they think it was.
Than there is being on the municipality's radar and having a bad reputation with the locals.

Good Luck.

ftbuild
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2018 15:04
Reply 


^well, I already pay steep taxes for the land which should be more than enough for town hall and garbage. All beyond that is a cash grab, especially permits. The pricing for those is driving me nuts. Permits are not inherently bad if they are reasonably priced.
Another thing what govt could have done is create a choice - full scale building permit and a cabin permit at a reduced rate. Problem be solved. Everything would be accountable, yet more common city folk would have a way to start in the country.

Re Kawartha, that sounds promising if it is true. Still, a permit at approx 100$ per sq ft will be a 10k setback for a smallest cabin. Got to research!

Ontario lakeside
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2018 15:56
Reply 


We are in the Kawarthas and have had a fantastic experience with our building inspector. we were able to build as small as 600Sq ft. the permits were in under $1000. $100 per sq foot is incorrect. permits for new builds in toronto are under $2 SF
http://torontobuildingpermits.com/?page_id=20

stacyj
Member
# Posted: 1 Feb 2020 07:18
Reply 


I 100% realize this is 9 years old haha. But if you are still on here i would love to chat. I am moving to bracebridge/ gravenhurst area in july and my dreams are quickly being crushed. Did you get anywhere with your meetings?

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