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Martian
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 19:51 - Edited by: Martian
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Hi, I'm Tom, and I'm a small space addict. For years, I lived on mostly sailboats, but there was one powerboat, a 1914 37' river launch in Mobile, AL, that was a lot of fun. My current home is 380 sqft including the loft.
I've just laid out the foundation lines for the new home; 480sqft.
I've been doing a lot of reading on here. The amount of information is outstanding, and all of you seem really nice and helpful. I'm really looking forward to getting to know everyone.
Tom
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larry
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 20:36
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can i interest you in a 1971 Morgan 42 sloop. it has a 12 foot beam and draws 7ft. lived its life in fresh water and has a pedigree like no other????
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 20:57
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welcome----nice home, you are from BIG DEER country for sure.....
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Martian
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 21:57
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Larry, uuuhhhhhmmmmmmmmm.......NO. After 25 years of living and making a living on boats, I've decided to make the Kansas Flinthills home. In a lot of ways, its like the sea; wide open vistas, but I don't have to worry about dragging anchor or reefing sails when the wind pipes up. Thanks, though. Can I interest you in a 32' Bolger on a really nice trailer? It needs work, but it was the most fun boat for traveling up and down the coast from Key West to Maryland.
Turkey Hunter, we do have some large deer up here. I ride an older BMW motorcycle; deer are a real problem.
I built the house about 10 years ago in a little town which, unfortunately, floods. The locals call it "The Treehouse". My new house is going to be on the side of a hill.
Tom
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 22:10
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cute place.
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neb
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 22:13
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Tom that is a nice looking home. Do you live there year around?
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Martian
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 22:31 - Edited by: Martian
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Thanks, Cabingal, and Neb, yes I do. I sold about a year after building it to go sailing again. Luckily, it was on the market when I came back about 5 years ago; so, I bought it back.
The ex and I have a 3.5 acre old homestead about 5 miles out of town. Her 800sqft house used to sit where the treehouse does now before the flood of '98. We had rebuilt a 1896/1907 house just before the flood. We had it moved to the homestead after preparing the site. The new house is going on the opposite end of that property.
Here is the interior.
Tom
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SmlTxCabin
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 22:46
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Love your treehouse. That is awesome. I love unique homes and yours certainly fits the bill. Any interior pics youd like to share???
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Martian
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 22:54 - Edited by: Martian
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STC, look up. I anticipated your request.:)
BTW, I grew up in Texas.
The new cabin is going in that clump of trees to the right of the road.
Tom
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SmlTxCabin
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2011 23:56
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Very cool You must have posted while I was on your page...LOVE the loft. Such a neat place.
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Martian
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2011 14:42 - Edited by: Martian
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Thanks, STC. The wood on the walls in the loft was salvaged from a neighbor's barn. They were getting ready to burn down. The planks are 100yo T&G heart pine 1X8's that were the grain bin.
One of the sad things about building another place is leaving one that holds so many memories. For instance, the kitchen counters are made from rough sawn Sycamore given to me by a local logger who is now dead, and the sink came from an auction I attended with a very special young lady. We bought it for $1.00.
But the new place will have memories built into it, too. I have a bunch of rough sawn sycamore, red elm, white oak, and hedgewood, also known as Bois de'Arc ("Bodark" to us Texans). I haven't decided which to use.
Tom
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hattie
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2011 16:20
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Martian - Oh I LOVE that big, old kitchen sink! You actually got that for $1?????? Amazing! I also love, what looks like an old kitchen table with the drop down sides. The place looks like it has lots of warm character. Nice work!
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Martian
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# Posted: 19 Mar 2011 16:47
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Hi, Hattie. Thanks.
I love that sink, too. In fact, I'm pretty sure its going with me! And yes, I got it for $1. Technically, it wasn't in the auction. I happened to see it laying in the weeds and asked about it. I was the only bidder! That sucker is heavy!
And that is an old '50's era drop sided table with the Formica top and aluminum legs with two matching chairs. I made a new Sycamore table; so its looking for a home.
I can't take too much credit for the warm character, though. When I bought the place back, I got all the furnishings except the recliners and the TV. I must admit to being a stereo-typical male; I have absolutely no decorating talent!:) My ex keeps trying to add shelves (for knicknacks) in the design of my new place, and I keep telling her there won't be any knicknacks they have to be dusted!
Tom
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Martian
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2011 20:59
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I hope everyone's weekend was good.
This weekend started out cool and rainy, but today was sunny, warm, and very windy. Yesterday, was spent cutting a trailer load of firewood for next year, and today I set 4 of the 15 6X6 CCA piers for the new cabin. What a great workout! Each hole was dug, using jobbers, 34" deep and 15" in diameter so I could use a 3" Bodark (heavy) post to tamp them in.....no concrete. Each hole was tamped before the post went in. The clay we have at that level tamps down really solid. When I was a kid down in Texas, my dad taught me how to set a post. He said a properly tamped post wouldn't have any extra dirt laying around, and when my brother and I built fences, he always looked to see if we'd scattered the dirt instead of tamping it down the hole. To this day, anytime I'm working for myself, I opt to tamp instead of pour. It could be I'm just cheap! But even though the treehouse sits 9' in the air, I tamped the piers in place. It doesn't move.
I've got to remember to take a camera and document the progress. Hopefully, I'll be able to set one or two more piers each day after work and finish up next weekend if the weather cooperates and this old body holds up.:)
Tom
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2011 21:25
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cool place to build Martian.i was born in Texas.family is mostly from Port arthur area.your place is really nice.
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Martian
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2011 23:04
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Cabingal, if you went to Catholic school in Port Arthur, you may have known my aunt.
The view is really nice at the site. It looks across a creek valley to the hills on the other side about a mile away. The land around the site is tallgrass prairie that is allowed to go native as part of a conservation program. It is full of quail, pheasant, turkeys, and deer.
Tom
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2011 23:17
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Quoting: Martian Cabingal, if you went to Catholic school in Port Arthur, you may have known my aunt.
no Arthur.i went to Thomas Jefferson high.If u know the Hubers as in Pete Huber.hes my ex bil.my brothers were Robert and Chris taylor.My brother Chris is still there.also the Hefleys are related.if u know of any of them...say hi.
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Martian
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2011 23:44
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I'm afraid I don't. I grew up in Navasota, graduated in '69, and joined the Marines. Since then, I've lived a lot of places from Maine to Key West to the Seattle area. My only connection with PA was my aunt who was a nun; she was the principal at the Catholic school for awhile.
Tom
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2011 07:35
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Quoting: Martian my dad taught me how to set a post. He said a properly tamped post wouldn't have any extra dirt laying around, and when my brother and I built fences, he always looked to see if we'd scattered the dirt instead
my dad and your DaD must have been brothers''''''''LOL
my Dad had a notch carved in the hole digger handle and he would check the holes depth behind me to make sure it was right.........
Quoting: Martian The land around the site is tallgrass prairie that is allowed to go native as part of a conservation program. It is full of quail, pheasant, turkeys, and deer.
need any help with those posts during hunting season :-)
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Martian
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2011 08:42
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Unfortunately, I don't own the surrounding land or I'd put you to work!
Tom
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SmlTxCabin
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2011 09:34
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Wow Martian. Navasota is not far from where I am. Up close to Fairfield here. Small world good to hear from someone down from my neck of the woods.
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Martian
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2011 21:16
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I get down your way about once a year to visit family. There are three sisters, a brother, and more nieces and nephews than I can count still living in Grimes County. The ex keeps the dogs so I can ride the bike down. Its about the only time I get away from here. By choice! A few years back, my sister, her husband, and I built most of their 2400sqft retirement home. (They have lots of kids and grandkids). We did everything but the slab, the rocking, and the shingling. The fun part was they only had a basic layout; the rest, we designed as we went. Talk about a custom home! My sister got the house she'd always wanted.
After work, I managed to get the last two corner piers set. The new place is going to be 20X24 so there is 31' 2.79" across the corners. I want you to know, measuring the diagonals in a 30mph wind was fun.(That's sarcasm, if you couldn't tell!:) But someone once told me the mark of a good carpenter is not that he never makes mistakes; its that he can hide his mistakes. I promise you, by the time I'm done, nobody will ever know if I'm a 1/4" out of square. As we used to say in the boatshop, where you couldn't use a square or a level, "If it looks straight, it is straight."
Y'all have a good evening.
Tom
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Martian
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# Posted: 22 Mar 2011 20:11
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Another windy but productive day! Two more piers were set, and I even remembered to take the camera!
The progress so far. Looking West.
This is looking NE towards the shop and the ex's house. That's Byron inspecting the work.
Looking out to the NW. Notice the stone barn foundation in the background. Someday I'd like to rebuild it.
And the last is my favorite. Looking South.
Tom
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Martian
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# Posted: 23 Mar 2011 21:12
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Sorry, no progress was made today. At work, we are putting a porch on an old house. While digging the holes for the supports, I hit the waterline. It wasn't supposed to be there! By the time it was repaired, I'd done enough digging for the day.
Tom
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Mar 2011 21:54 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Are those piers at their finished height? Can I inquire how deep and what your bracing plan is? How many piers, what kind of beams? (480 sq ft? 16x30?)
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Martian
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# Posted: 23 Mar 2011 23:48 - Edited by: Martian
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Hi, Don.
The piers are not at finished height. They are set at 3' and will be cut off to give me an 18" clearance under the joists at the lowest point. Eventually, I'll have 13 piers. The odd one is going under the corner where the 6X8 porch juts in. The banding is going to be double 2X12 treated sitting on shoulders sawn into the piers and then bolted to the piers and double thru-bolted on 4' centers. There will be a single 2X12 down the center under the 8" floor joists. I don't have any additional bracing planned. The cabin will be 24X20.
Tom
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2011 00:54 - Edited by: MtnDon
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This is for your information only, not meant to say anything is wrong. If I use standard accepted span tables for girders/beamsd, joists and rafters here are some figures you may find interesting.
I should have asked your snow load... I see Kansas is mostly 25 psf. Also one story no loft, or if there is a loft.
When I refer to lumber I mean commonly available, normally used grade #2.
For no loft, just a main floor, two 2x12 have a span limit for beams/girders of 8'1" so you are within that by a tad if the piers are on 8 foot centers as they appear to be,.... Three rows of 4, make 12 (plus one).
If there was an upper floor or loft three 2x12 would be much better. Three 2x10 would cut it for a loft as well, but not for a full upper floor.
Floor joists: 2x8 joist will just make it on 24" centers. (rated to 10'3" span) Sixteen inch centers would make it more solid (spans 12'3").
One thing to think about regarding bolts is that while they are strong they are often stronger than the wood the holes are drilled through, especially when they are over tightened and crush the wood fibers. Bolts with a flat washer under the head and nut are preferred over carriage bolts that have the square that cuts into the wood fibers. If the wood develops a split at a bolt hole the strength drops precipitously. For that reason many times common nails can be better suited. Five or 6 16D common (not air nails which are smaller shanked) can be stronger than a 1/2 inch bolt. Same for nailing the layers together, a 10D or 16D common nail two inches in from both the upper and lower edges and 24 to 32 inches apart will secure one 2x to another. If 16D are used clinching over the pointy end is advised. At the piers nail one 2x into place, then the second over it.
It's good to hear the piers will be shortened. Bracing would still be a great idea. All that keeps an unbraced pier from moving laterally or tilting is integrity of the soil. Some soils have lousy ability to hold a pier straight when they get wet. Some if too sandy are lousy when dry. Just like in a roof triangles make excellent bracing shapes. They should be installed both in the length and the width.
I hope you take this as friendly advise from someone who has seen a number of cabins that have what would be considered faults if looked at by a structural engineer.
Think big winds and what they can do. There are things that can help immensely against high wind damage. It is possible to make a cabin strong enough to minimize damage from F2.
You might consider plywood gussets at each pier to beam joint. If the piers were notched for the double 2x12 on their outer side then a 3/4 PT plywood plate could be cut and nailed over the joint. (then another half plate could be cut to brace across the width) Say 18 to 24 inches wide at the top, covering the full depth of the beam and extending down the pier to a few inches above the ground. Cut to narrow to 8 to 12 inches wide at the bottom. That would be the simplest way to get some decent lateral bracing. Deformed shank nails hold better than straight smooth shank.
Using H-1 hurricane ties to attach the floor joists to the beams makes a big difference in uplift resistance. Use them at the rafter s too. If you can find 4 x 9 foot structural wood sheets (osb or ply) of sheathing for the walls (assuming a standard 8 foot wall height) the extra length can be used to overlap the rim joists and make everything tied together better.
G/L
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Martian
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2011 08:15
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Don, thanks for the advise.
Since I am going to skirt the cabin and have a few 4X4's laying around, I think I'll add them as bracing running from top to bottom of adjacent piers. They can act as backing for the skirting, too. In the Treehouse, I used metal banding strap to tie everything together every 8'; it seems to be holding up quite well. The floorplan is very open with the loads being carried either over the banding or the center support; there will be very little load in the middle of the spans; so I'll most likely stay with the 20' 2X8 yellow pine on 24" centers w/blocking at 5' intervals under 3/4" T&G plywood subfloor. The joist will be supported inside the banding using three #10 4' Torx screws thru the inside 2X12 into the ends and joist hangers on the inside.
I plan to use 6" 26ga flashing to tie the bottom plate and studs to the banding all the way around. All walls will have diagonal bracing 1X4 inset into the inside of the studs and 1/2" OSB sheathing on the outside. Exterior is going to be 4X8 Hardiboard.
Once again, thanks for your advise. I may not always follow it, but its still nice to have it to consider.
Tom
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2011 10:27 - Edited by: MtnDon
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One thing you said has me wondering if I understand correctly... Quoting: Martian The joist will be supported inside the banding using three #10 4' Torx screws thru the inside 2X12 into the ends and joist hangers on the inside.
Most deck type screws are hardened to prevent the screwdriver bit from tearing the heads. The hardening makes the screws brittle. They seldom bend under shear load, they snap off. Simpson does make some screws for their metal brackets, etc. that are made to withstand shear forces; $$ though. Another potential issue on that is the floor and everything on the floor is then depending on the strength of the wood fibers of the joist to prevent failure. If the end grain of the joist veers off a little, like it often does, it can lead the fastener off to the side and that gives little strength.
That's why you will see many builders placing the joists on top of the beams. Wood piled on top of other wood is always stronger than wood being held in place by a mechanical fastener. Exceptions are using things like metal joist hangers with the proper fasteners. I would seriously rethink using screws or nails into end grain to support joists.
You can do without the let in 1x4 if you use 7/16 structural rated OSB to sheath the entire exterior. Nailed every 6 inches around the panel and 12 inches in the field that is way more rigid than any 1x4 let in.
G/L
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Martian
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2011 13:32
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To clarify, the joist will be 2X8X20' to span the full 20' width. The ends will be held with joist hangers AND screws into the ends with the center resting on the center support. I will screw the joist in place prior to adding the additional 2X12 so the screw will extend into the joist 2.5". The joist hangers can then be slipped under the joist and screwed into both 2X12's. I use #10 coated Torx screws for CCA lumber and have never had anything move enough to shear a screw.
Tom
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