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mangyhyena
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 14:43
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New here, so go easy on me.
My wife and I want to travel in an RV after we retire, for personal and economic reasons. We would also like a place we can stay to get off the road. I was thinking about a remote piece of property of our own to park the RV on, but most areas prohibit that because an RV is not a permanent structure. I was surprised to find this is illegal, since it shouldn't be a crime, but with the way this country is going, I shouldn't have been surprised.
An off grid cabin on our property would work, but we want the modern conveniences an RV provides; kitchen, bathroom/shower, refrigerator... And, no, we don't want to pay the extra cost of building those things into the cabin.
My thought is to build a cabin with an attached garage so we can park the RV inside. Cabin would have no kitchen or bathroom or plumbing or electricity, just open living space & a wood burning stove. We would use the RV as normal (bathroom/kitchen/bedroom) and the cabin's interior as a living room.
Illegal? Probably. We wouldn't be advertising our setup locally and we would be on the road frequently, anyway. With the RV inside, we shouldn't attract attention. We mainly want to know we can come off the road for as long as we need without getting hassled for living in our RV on our own land. Think of it as stealth boondocking on our own land. Tiny house within a tiny house.
We would fill up with fresh water and drain holding tanks legally, which means periodic trips into town. We would just go home afterwards, instead of hitting the road.
Yes, I'm trying to get around the prohibitions against living full time in our RV on our own land. Yes, this is sneaky and probably not technically legal. As far as right and wrong go, the better question is why can't people live in an RV on their own property, especially when the property is isolated? Who decided to make this economical setup illegal? Wasn't me. I have absolutely no guilt about doing this because I wouldn't be harming anyone and it shouldn't be illegal in the first place.
Ideally, I'd like this setup at 2 locations so we can ride out winters in a warm climate. I'm 45 now, so I've got time to work on this before retirement. I am also writing fiction with the intention of self publishing ebooks, so I hope to continue earning some income, however small, after I retire from my day job.
Okay, what are my biggest hurtles? Obviously, I would need to keep the setup inside the cabin from becoming known.
Is it also illegal to live in an off grid cabin without at least a septic or outhouse/DonJon? What is the minimum I would need to satisfy authorities if they were unaware of the RV use? Are cabins classified by government as residence or vacation/camping structures based on whether or not it has plumbing/kitchen/electric?
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dsmith14469
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 15:10 - Edited by: dsmith14469
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I always thought this was an interesting idea, an open house structure with an RV garage that is also used as living space, bad explanation but good article and building ideas.
http://books.google.com/books?id=YdQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=popular+mechanics +rv+house&source=bl&ots=Uw3grN5hPI&sig=jqSXwiiGxSpHSyWtML7a5GWc9AE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S2cH VM29IcjBggTzmYK4Cw&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=popular%20mechanics%20rv%20house&f=fal se
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 18:11 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: mangyhyena Are cabins classified by government as residence or vacation/camping structures based on whether or not it has plumbing/kitchen/electric?
Check state and local rules. That can vary a lot from place to place. Some states have special rules for limited use camps, as they are often called. Many states do not.
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Frequently buildings or land uses that do not meet the letter of the law are turned in to the government by others in the area. Those others are usually ones who have complied with the rules and get upset when someone comes along and disregards the rules that are in place. On the one hand you can hardly blame them. ???
What works for someone in one place may not work elsewhere. The key is check what the local rules are where you want to settle. One reason for not permitting long term RV parking may be, "how do you get rid of the black and grey waste water?". Some locales have easier grey water rules than others. Nobody will permit black water surface disposal. Privy's are allowed in some places and not at all in others.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 21:09
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Its legal to live full time in your park model RV.
http://parkmodels.com/
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 21:44
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mangyhyena
Live free or die. I believe that to my core. Don't destroy the earth. Be responsible with your waste. Use a composting toilet. Make sure you choose an area where no one is bothered by your style. I'm sure there's a hundred counties that would welcome you.
Salty
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SandyR
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 22:14
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I want to suggest to try parking the RV on your land and stay in it for a couple of weekends to see how it works out. Maybe you may not need to have extra room?
Is it still illegal to do what you think you want if you don't keep the RV there? Can you drive it home when you are not on the land?
We have borrowed our friend's RV for two weekends and have found the space really tight. Sometimes the mechanics of the RV don't always want to work when you want them to also.
We were really excited to borrow it, because it sure beats sleeping in the tents especially when it rains! But I have to say that I can't wait to build our cabin in three weeks to have more room to move around in. I found the RV really cramped.
I think your plan to use the RV for the kitchen and sleeping is a good idea as long as you build that extra room to move around in.
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mangyhyena
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2014 22:56
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Thanks, all. Great points.
Black & gray water would be disposed of at a proper location, same as if we're on the road.
This idea is mainly to keep costs down, but I like the idea of heading out and not leaving anything worth stealing at the cabin, then returning & setting it back up.
If i do this right, in the right location, no one will know or care. I'll have a cost effective home base with the luxuries we want.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2014 07:21 - Edited by: Wilbour
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Quoting: mangyhyena build a cabin with an attached garage so we can park the RV inside
If you did this, wouldn't it be dark in your RV all the time? I guess if you just use the RV for bathroom and sleeping while cooking outside this could work. I would also worry about air flow on hot days. Perhaps a carport open on 3 sides would be better?
I like your thinking though!
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2014 09:05
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Have you checked what the local zoning ordinances actually say? Where I am you can't live in an RV on your land permanently, but if you have a septic system you can stay there 4 months out of the year.
Not sure how far you will gets with building a house with garage to house the RV. If you try to get a permit for any building, they are going to closely scrutinize it. Anything permitted as a residence will have to have bathroom, kitchen, heat source etc. you could just build a large garage and not tell them how you plan to use it. But then later if you get turned in by a nosy neighbor you have a problem.
People don't want other people living in RVs in their neighborhood because of the perception that it's low income housing, 'trailer trash' is the term sometimes used. Your point that people ought to be able may be a good one, but you are up against the 'will of the people' I suppose.
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mangyhyena
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2014 14:01
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You're right. In a neighborhood, this would never fly. Low cost housing pretty much begins and ends in trailer parks. On an isolated piece of property, though, without nosy neighbors close by, and not living there year round, I think it will work. If it looks like authorities are getting suspicious, we pack up and hit the road, leaving an empty cabin to be investigated. Far as they're concerned, we use the cabin for extended camping vacations a few times a year.
If we don't cause problems or otherwise draw attention to ourselves, we should be fine. For someone to turn us in, they would have to witness us using the RV inside the cabin for sleeping, cooking, and using the bathroom, or hear us talking about it. Not likely to happen. I suppose someone might get suspicious, but we don't plan to leave them an easy way to confirm the suspicion we're using an RV to provide luxuries, like running water, bathroom, light/power, and kitchen.
This is why I don't want to live year round on a single property. Instead, I'd like to pick up 2 properties and set up both like this, with just a shell of a cabin with a garage. I'm thinking I can afford it if I don't have to add a bathroom and kitchen and bedrooms to the cabins. Between time on the road and the rest split between both properties, we won't be in one place long enough for folks to investigate. If it became a real problem, I'd sell the property and buy another in a different area.
I've got time before retirement to purchase and set up 2 remote properties. I know we'll do a lot of RV traveling, but we'll also want to know we can come off the road without having to rent space at camp grounds. As long as we don't push our luck by trying to stay year round, we should be ok.
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JDPugh
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2014 17:20
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There are some similar properties in Linville, NC. They are in "Linville Land Harbor. Look through the realtor listings.
http://www.linvillelandharbor.com
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JDPugh
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2014 17:25
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Quite a few like this.
http://www.linvillelandharbor.com/property-185818-realman-226-180-10.html
Some just have a gravel lot, outdoor firepit/kitchen and locked shed.
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2014 18:27
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Most areas you can RV on your own land for up to 2 weeks under town code. , but only up to so many weeks per calendar year/or only during a certain season....the RV has to disappear for a few days before the next 2 week stay.
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MarkG
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2014 23:54
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In most cases it is a Health Code violation. Grey and black water is of concern to these people. Other localities it's against building code as well (eye sore). I too was considering this EXACT idea. Living-room and RV attached for sleeping amenities. My county has no building coeds so that was not the problem, but the Heath Department would. In my jurisdiction they say the "camper" must be moved every 30 days. They do not say to where or how long! So my neighbor just rolls his camper a few feet one direction for 30 days, then back the next. They did chalk mark the tires once, when they saw what he was doing they just stopped coming out. Not worth it...lol
He did keep the receipts from they dump station in town as well. Just in case.
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