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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 15:41 - Edited by: WHMillvale
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After 15 years of schlepping propane tanks to our cabin here on Prince Edward Island, we embarked on trying to get an account with a propane supplier who could supply, install, and fill one of those "fat boy" (no offense) tanks.
The cavalier and arrogant nature of these companies operating here has left us shaking our heads in amazement. First, it was the matter of getting the truck up to us, as if they're coming up Mt. Everest. We're off a 1/2 mile dirt road and have a mildly sloping driveway. Every truck gets up here without any trouble, including the 40 ft. tractor trailer that delivered our log home package.
But no... not these Prima donna's. Oh, one company insisted on selling us a 420L tank - an option which we ultimately rejected because it would cost $1400 - and had their site guy over, and he said "yeah, sure we can come up here." But back to the company owner, he pretty bluntly told us he couldn't make any money with a rental because we're seasonal users, and had to make it via the tank sale. Cute. And you have to love all the "family business" and we're here for you claptrap on their website.
Meanwhile, a few days later, two people from a large national outfit show up with a ready, dismissive attitude and offer a bit of snark as they tell me where to go regarding a tank installation. We could swear these guys had an issue with us on some personal level. Not from Canada? That's right, we're American. And one of the out-of-province people contributing over 3 million to your utterly dependent Island economy.
Meanwhile, we have another "site visit" scheduled with another large supplier, and are dealing with someone from another local firm who refuses to get back to us..
So out we went yesterday to fill up a another 40 pounder. We're in our 70's, and even these are getting pretty heavy. I'll add I'm tired of having our unreliable local fellow here deal with our two 100 pound tanks, which he never seems to get a chance to do so we have to resort to the 40.
And so therefore I call these propane people autocrats -- and for something so vital as fuel that there's no mechanism, political or otherwise to compel these people to serve everyone. How about smaller trucks? How about really giving a damn?
How about someone starting a grass-roots local business delivering propane to off-gridders like us?
Happy Canada Day!
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FishHog
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 19:45
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Nice rant but sadly it’s the way things are now. Hardly anyone cares anymore and never go the extra mile
But this is what we taught the younger generation so this is what we get
Customer service is a thing of the past at least from my experience in the past few years
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 20:58
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Go outside of their area, have an outsider (installer from out of that region) install the tank, he isnt selling you the propane, so he can make money on his tank, then be done. Propane delivery be left to locals.
We have DOT and ASME tanks, ASME can be buried underground, never need retesting.
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ICC
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 21:18 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: WHMillvale an option which we ultimately rejected because it would cost $1400
A 420 L tank is a 110-120 gallon tank to us in the US. Where I am that is the tank size some call a FatBoy. What size are you meaning if that is too big, too expensive?
One nice thing about them is (where I am) those can be placed right beside a building wall, whereas all the larger tanks need to be more distant from structures.
$1400 seems about right for the price of a 120-gallon (420-pound) tank; installation extra. In my locale, the propane dealers see that as the minimum size they will send out a truck to fill.
A 120 gallon will contain 96 gallons when filled to the allowable safe limit, BTW.
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A possible option in some locations would be an ASME approved tank such as the ones mounted permanently in Class C, B and A RV's. I say possible because regulations can vary and I have no idea what is allowed in Canada. The 20 -100 lb tanks we commonly see are DOT approved, as are most of the larger propane tanks we see at cabins and homes where the truck must come to refill. A DOT-approved tank such as a 120-gallon size cannot be moved when it contains propane.
Where I am an ASME tank can be mounted on a trailer and towed to a dealer where it can be filled. Then you tow it back to wherever you want it.
I have a 78 gallon RV (ASME) tank mounted on a small trailer with big tires. I use it for propane at my cabin. It is a 4WD road and no dealer would ever think of delivering propane up it, and I do not blame them. My state regs allow me to tow it to town and refill as necessary. No contract with any dealer. Of course those tanks are pricey. I got this from an RV salvage dealer. It came out of a big Newell coach.
ASME tanks are heavier gauge steel and do not need recertification. They must be kept rust-free.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 1 Jul 2023 23:01 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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ICC, good info, I found an ASME tank from Canadian amazon, so it is doable. Maybe get one and have a contractro build a special built trailer for it.
Manchester (6828) 14" x 40" ASME Tank
Flame King YSN-293 29.3 Gallon RV, Van Or Trailer Horizontal Under Mounted ASME Propane Tank Cylinder
So it looks like ASME works in Canada, made for trailer or RV. Good option ICC, I think this is perfect for their scenario.
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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 08:55
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I certainly agree things have changed here (but not here alone, of course), and I know that from incredible customer service I experienced in 2005-2006 building this place. Everyone involved was spot on and went above board and drove every possible vehicle up here without a complaint. But I hadn't contacted a propane company at that time, so who knows...
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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 08:58
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Go outside of their area, have an outsider (installer from out of that region) install the tank, he isnt selling you the propane, so he can make money on his tank, then be done. Propane delivery be left to locals. We have DOT and ASME tanks, ASME can be buried underground, never need retesting.
Useful suggestion, thanks, and I've looked at getting my own tank. I still wonder what hassles I'm going to face getting supplied and re-supplied.
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WHMillvale
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 09:14
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Quoting: ICC A 420 L tank is a 110-120 gallon tank to us in the US. Where I am that is the tank size some call a FatBoy. What size are you meaning if that is too big, too expensive? One nice thing about them is (where I am) those can be placed right beside a building wall, whereas all the larger tanks need to be more distant from structures. $1400 seems about right for the price of a 120-gallon (420-pound) tank; installation extra. In my locale, the propane dealers see that as the minimum size they will send out a truck to fill. A 120 gallon will contain 96 gallons when filled to the allowable safe limit, BTW.
I may be getting my measurements squirrel-y on capacity re: liters/gallons/pounds. The tank that a cooperating company would install is 4'6" in height and 30" in diameter, and hold 120 lbs./375 litres.
Purchasing the tank from the dealer for $1400 frankly at first sounded viable until he waffled on committing to fill said tank, saying nutty things like "I might not be here in 25 years, to "A tree might fall down across your road". When I asked him if there was any provision in the contract at all to guarantee we'd get deliveries, he said no. So one could end up dropping money for a tank with no ability to fill it.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 12:13 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: WHMillvale "I might not be here in 25 years, to "A tree might fall down across your road". When I asked him if there was any provision in the contract at all to guarantee we'd get deliveries, he said no. So one could end up dropping money for a tank with no ability to fill it.
Wow, he comes up with stupid scenarios. OK, if he isnt here in 25 yrs, get his replacement. A tree falls down, owner can cut it. He was just being obtuse at that point. Surprised he didnt say "what if a meteor hit my delivery truck" or lightning strikes the tank, or pocket gophers undermine tank footing, falls from its mooring and rolls down a hill.
Have a trailer built for a large tank and take it up there yourself. Perfect solution. Looks like ASME works the same in the US ad it does in Canada.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 13:22 - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Same here denied by propane companies.
Funny how we were able to get our 25 foot travel trailer, a bulldozer on a trailer and a tractor down our road.
Relying on 40 pounders.
Found this last year. See photographs.
Last auction we attended had steel ramps.
So we will be able to either have a truck meet us at the end of our driveway to fill both (depends on cost) or take it into town. Just filling one if we have to transport ourselves.
Probably won’t purchase until next summer.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 13:24
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Photograph of tank and specs.
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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 16:13
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Wow, he comes up with stupid scenarios. OK, if he isnt here in 25 yrs, get his replacement. A tree falls down, owner can cut it. He was just being obtuse at that point. Surprised he didnt say "what if a meteor hit my delivery truck" or lightning strikes the tank, or pocket gophers undermine tank footing, falls from its mooring and rolls down a hill. Have a trailer built for a large tank and take it up there yourself. Perfect solution. Looks like ASME works the same in the US ad it does in Canada.
Yeah, pretty amazing stuff. Interesting thing is the company he works for was acquired by one of the other outfits on the Island that turned us down with a "We won't put a truck up there". But he was apparently able to (for now) act kind of independent of his masters. What will happen when said masters find out he "put a truck up there". No more fill-ups to the empty tank we purchased from him.
It's clear, unless we make a breakthrough with one of the other remaining outfits, that we must continue to solve the problem ourselves.
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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 16:19
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Quoting: silverwaterlady Same here denied by propane companies. Funny how we were able to get our 25 foot travel trailer, a bulldozer on a trailer and a tractor down our road. Relying on 40 pounders. Found this last year. See photographs. Last auction we attended had steel ramps. So we will be able to either have a truck meet us at the end of our driveway to fill both (depends on cost) or take it into town. Just filling one if we have to transport ourselves. Probably won’t purchase until next summer.
Thanks for posting that information. We'll have to consider solutions like that if we are resigned to handling it ourselves.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 Jul 2023 16:23
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They do sell a 100lb tank with a valve that can be filled via a truck. I believe you can order them online or at a big box store. Would this serve your needs?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2023 12:00
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Propane goes something like 4.16#/gal. if that helps calc tank/cylinder capacities.
Btw, around here portables are call cylinders and tanks are perm.
We have an upright (maybe what you call a fatboy) that sounds similar to the dimensions you gave. When empty it isnt a hard thing to move and load onto our small utility trailer to strap in and take to the supplier.
When full is another story....but last fall 2 of us 70+ oldsters moved it off the trailer and back into its place.
Local supplier's truck comes by often enough I could get a fill but I like the option of being able to move Any Thing Ive got. With my tractor and end loader or pallet forks it will be easy-peasy.
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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2023 08:46
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Quoting: Brettny They do sell a 100lb tank with a valve that can be filled via a truck. I believe you can order them online or at a big box store. Would this serve your needs?
I think it would, and we'll go that route if no other option becomes available.
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WHMillvale
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2023 08:51
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Quoting: gcrank1 Propane goes something like 4.16#/gal. if that helps calc tank/cylinder capacities. Btw, around here portables are call cylinders and tanks are perm. We have an upright (maybe what you call a fatboy) that sounds similar to the dimensions you gave. When empty it isnt a hard thing to move and load onto our small utility trailer to strap in and take to the supplier. When full is another story....but last fall 2 of us 70+ oldsters moved it off the trailer and back into its place. Local supplier's truck comes by often enough I could get a fill but I like the option of being able to move Any Thing Ive got. With my tractor and end loader or pallet forks it will be easy-peasy.
I like hearing these stories of self-reliance and emancipation from the propaniacs. I do believe we'll get there with all the examples and recommendations .
Thanks for commenting.
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