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bamalamadingdong
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 14:29
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I am working on a off grid cabin my brother in law built..He passed.... he has 10 golf cart batteries that are no good now, it was all built 30 years ago.........there are inverters etc... the place ran on solar and off a generator thats gone and needs replaced. my question is there a newer and easier battery system.... we use to be able to turn on a switch and it activated a small pump would take water from a 400 gallon holding tank to the cabin....he also had a generator that had the exhaust system heated water in a hot water tank....the other question... is there an easier system to get hot water than using the hot water tank.....
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travellerw
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 15:41
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You are asking some very loaded questions.
I think you should spend some time over at DIYSolarforum (https://diysolarforum.com/). Get educated on the different aspects of off-grid power. Once you have a good grasp on things like required Wh, Wh, LiFepo4, FLA, MPPT, ect ect ect.. Then you should be able to ask some more pointed questions.
As to hot water. Its very common to use an on demand propane hot water heater. Its the easiest, but there are other solutions (like wood hot water, ect).
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 18:09 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Does your location get below freezing? That will help determine what battery chemistry will be appropriate for you.
What size and type is the inverter (ie, 1000w msw or psw)?
A Very Important start point for you is to do a current (pun intended) Energy Audit. If you dont Know what your elec needs are you cant size your bat-bank and inverter properly.
From what you say this is the time to do a major rebuild of the out of date (and possibly 'shakey') system.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 18:45
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For hot water use a ondemand propane heater. If it gets very cold where you are I wouldnt suggest lithium.
What voltage input does your inverter need?
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bamalamadingdong
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 19:15
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I'm on the gulf coast Mobile Alabama.......so its more heat than cold.....I think its a 1200 or 1500 watt inverter....here is a picture of most of the system...my brother in law was a mad genius,,,,, but it worked and he had all the fail safes in the system...but it was always complicated for me.....im sure it can be made simpler
system
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monitor in the cabin
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10 Batteries in sequence
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bamalamadingdong
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 19:20
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Here is video of the whole system
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bamalamadingdong
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 19:24
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With the generator he had it would heat a water heater from the exhaust.It ran a well pump to fill 400 gallon tank....it had a small pump to push water in the cabin.. it ran the lights that were the low draw RV type....it ran two window units.....dont know what size generator,,, he took it out before he died....
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travellerw
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 19:44 - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: bamalamadingdong I'm on the gulf coast Mobile Alabama.......so its more heat than cold.....I think its a 1200 or 1500 watt inverter....here is a picture of most of the system...my brother in law was a mad genius,,,,, but it worked and he had all the fail safes in the system...but it was always complicated for me.....im sure it can be made simpler
Looks like a pretty standard old school system (old school being 10-15 years ago). What you are going to learn, is that DIY off-grid power is complicated. If you are looking for a shortcut then look into Ecoflow Delta stuff. You can buy an All-In-One system where you just supply the panels. Just be prepared for the costs as depending on the size you need it would be 2000-7000K. The "Ultra" system is in pre-order right now and has some amazing specs and reviews.
No matter what road you go down, you will need to do an energy audit to figure out how much power you draw (typically) and how many Wh of battery you need to carry you over the amount of days you require.
Of course, there is nothing stopping you from ditching solar/batteries and just running a diesel plant (other than the costs of fuel and guilt)
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travellerw
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 19:46
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Quoting: bamalamadingdong I think its a 1200 or 1500 watt inverter....
The red inverter to the right is bigger than 1200-1500 for sure.. More like 2500!
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bamalamadingdong
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 19:58
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Yep your right ....I might just bypass all the solar till later on and go direct generator to go ahead and use the place ....
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2024 20:18
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When I was 'between things' with my rebuild(s) I made it all to run off our little Champion 1700/2000peak inverter gen (now they have a 2500peak I think). And when the gen ran an automotive 12v battery charger recharged my bat-bank for evening 'silent running' of led lights and fans, etc.
BTW, imo any incandescent lighting you have NEEDS to be replaced with LEDs, at least the lights you use the most.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 08:34
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Looks like theres 2 inverters in that system. When you identify each product it dosnt look very complex becids all the junction boxes and breakers.
Did you check the water level in the batteries? Do you know there age?
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bamalamadingdong
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 09:53
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Yes, water levels are gone, cells dead......just need new batteries.... but thats $1000 in golf cart batteries....so I was trying to figure if there was an alternative newer battery system to hook up.... those batteries lasted for years..... after he died no body when there for a while to check water in the batteries..which needs to be done every 3 or 4 months to keep them topped off....yes all the junction boxes and breakers are mostly a mystery to me.. I cant find anyone im Mobile Alabama who deals in solar systems....Maybe a good electrician could help...Ill have to find one...it had a RV propane refrigerator which went out... I hear they are making a new style RV refrigerator that doesn't run on propane....but not sure how it works.....I could buy a propone fridge or get a new style and just get a big enough generator to run it and a minislip I want to put in
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FishHog
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 11:01
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if it worked before, just replace the batteries and hook back up. Learn the system from there and update if needed as you understand it. Sure there are new batteries out there, but that will most likely require a total revamp of your system. Costing way more than $1000.
New tech is great, but old proven stuff just keeps working as well.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 11:41
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What is the voltage set up on the bat-bank (your input to the inverters)?
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bamalamadingdong
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 12:01 - Edited by: bamalamadingdong
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Truthfully.....I dont know all the technical info on the system.....just looked up voltage on golf cart batteries 36 or 48 volts .. 10 batteries at 36 or 48 volts each.... I guess either 360 or 480 volts.....they are in sequence so I dont know how that works
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 12:11
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I will chime in here.
I know a bit about this stuff...
1) No VAC Electrician will make sense of that. An electrician with DC & Solar Experience & knowledge may figure it out. AC & DC ARE NOT THE SAME ! and Many standard AC electricians are quite DC Stupid.
2) YES this is a big of a rats nest. a couple of things leaped out at me, SCORCH MARKS and knowing what could have caused that would be a priority before putting ANY power into that collection. Critters can & do cause damage... Far too common actually.
3) Even someone like myself would need some serious time to track everything and to look at the whole system to know what it can/can't do and any safety issues are outlying.
Lead Acid Battery quality has drastically dropped over the past 15 years while the prices haven't. Full on Solar Lead Acid batteries are crazy expensive now because manufacturers have peeled away from that tech.
Currently Lithium Iron Phosphate / LiFePo4 / LFP is the leading champion for energy storage systems because they are the safest of Lithium Chemistries (no explosions/fires or gasses) and the prices are falling quite nicely.
NOTE ABOUT PHOTO'S !
I see manuals, documents etc in that "System Photo" you posted... Look at all of that and any other documents he may have left, never know, you might find the sketched design & layout...
I wish you luck and hope you can find a SOLAR GUY to help you out. I know we have several members from Alabama @ DIYSolarForum but you'd have to go and post your info there and see who responds and if anyone may be interested in doing a "house call". I do housecalls for the occasional "LOCAL" up here as long as it doesn't put me out much. I don't go international, sorry.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 12:17 - Edited by: Steve_S
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Quoting: bamalamadingdong I dont know all the technical info on the system.....just looked up voltage on golf cart batteries 36 or 48 volts
1) Get all the information off any labels on those batteries.
2) Get a GOOD Photograph that shows the wiring on top "clearly"
Solar System by their nature are either 12V / 24V or 48V. Anything above that changes many things and NONE of what you show in your photo's is HV DC... It's all Quite Different !
Batteries in SERIES increase Voltage.
Batteries in Parallel increase Storage Capacity (AmpHours).
Batteries can be in Series & Parallel within a battery bank. (NOT recommended or suggested with Lithium Based)
Before getting any deeper...
Get into that power room, and look at all the gear, write down the device Name/Make/Model for the inverters and solar controllers and all that stuff. We do not need to know about the AC side as that is simple. Once we know what the Inverters etc are it will help to "decipher" what you actually have there.
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bamalamadingdong
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 12:58
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I hear ya, Ill do that.....I think there is a three ring binder with alot of the original paperwork of the parts..... I tried to get him to draw out the system and how it works years ago .... but he knew it all having designed it....each bit of info from you or others helps ...thanks
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travellerw
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 15:17 - Edited by: travellerw
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Golf cart batteries are typically 6V, but do come in 8V. So you count the number of batteries in series, times that by 6V or 8 and it will give you the voltage of the system.
Based on your battery image, those are 6V batteries. There are 4 batteries in Parallel, then it switches to series. That would be a 12V battery bank. No idea why you have 10 batteries, I'm guessing he had a second smaller bank for something else (thus the 2 inverters).
I know you think you Bro in law was a mad generous, and maybe he was. However, he took the time to learn and understand all this stuff. Its not super complex (mostly grade 5 math and following wires), but it is work to understand it. There is no shortcut in a DIY system. Well there is, but some pretty big risks (electrocution, fire, ect).
Do some studying and understand the base concepts. Once you have that, I would suggest you go out there and refill the batts with distilled water. Start them on a regular charge for a long while, then an equalization charge. The bank may surprise you and come back for another year or two (giving you time to learn more and decide your path).
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travellerw
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 15:32
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Upon second inspection it actually looks like 3 inverters. 2 that are 1000-1500W and one really large one (the big red one to the right).
There is also a MorningStar solar controller right in the middle. Its the black and white unit (black part is fins). They are still in business and you can download manuals for it. Its an MPPT controller, but a pretty old design. They still supply firmware for it that should bring it up to a modern MPPT algorithm.
Really, there is nothing in your images that is super complex (just looks that way). Anyone here in this forum could probably figure it out in a 1/2 day of tracing and beer drinking.
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bamalamadingdong
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 16:38 - Edited by: bamalamadingdong
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Your right, I just have to take the time to look into it... ..... I have been redoing the cabin in and out myself....paint in and out, new doors and windows, new deck, new floors, fixing a leak and rotten wood in wall from chimney leak. new interior wood walls...new roof... and more.....those things I can do..I'm just lost on electrical unless its putting in a wall receptical or ceiling fan....I helped him build it 30 years ago...but each persons input is helpful of their experience
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 19:06
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You can get overwhelmed by apparent complexity of a wall like that.....so what you do is break it down into 'systems'
Storage: the bat-bank, be sure of how it is configured
Charging: Automotive type charger off generator, works just like any typical charger; hook it up right.
Solar: the array is all the panels. They feed the Solar Charge Controller, it feeds the bat-bank.
Inverter(s): Hook up to the bat-bank and turn the DC voltage into 120vac like household power.
There are likely various junction boxes, fuses/circuit breakers, etc in between all those bits; they are for safety. Dont let them confuse you as to the main components listed above as you sort this out.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2024 20:16
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I'm also for just buying new batteries. You could really be opening up a can of worms by going lithium. There voltages in/out are a bit different
There are ways to bring back to life deep cycle batteries. I wouldnt wright them off just yet. Topping off each cell and letting them charge up may tell you enough about how the system works or even if all of it does any more.
I have 6 FLA batteries (gc2 models) in central NY and if I added more than 1gal of water a year that would be alot. And I really only do that just before the winter because it's harder to get up there not because there very low.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2024 16:06 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Imo it is worth filling the bats with distilled water and charging them; you may find several that hold a charge and can be configured to the right voltage for you to test out the rest of the hardware (within the limits of the watts available). Just to be able to have lights and light duty stuff running on the small inverter would be a big step forward.
Fwiw, I had 4 big 12v (140#) agm batteries that were poorly treated.
By disconnecting all, recharging each and testing I found 1 was bad, 1 was iffy and 2 were weak but functional. By eliminating the bad one, which draws down the whole bank, I got some extra life. When the iffy one died I knew which one and pulled it out and got another season out of the last 2. By then I had learned a lot about my system.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2024 17:45
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Quoting: bamalamadingdong I have been redoing the cabin in and out myself....paint in and out, new doors and windows, new deck, new floors, fixing a leak and rotten wood in wall from chimney leak. new interior wood walls...new roof... and more.....those things I can do.
If you can do all that, then you can figure this out. Its just a different kind of work. As grank1 says, take it in steps. Bite size chunks is how you complete any project.
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bamalamadingdong
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2024 18:59
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Thanks for the encouragement.....I can see the end of the rainbow now after the major work done....LOL
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