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rayyy
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2011 17:46
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Iv'e been thinking about getting a 400 watt wind generator to help with keeping my batterys charged up.Especially during the winter months when the sun hardly ever shines and the snow and ice will be on my solar panels most of the time.Iv'e read lots of negitive feedback on the manufacturers not working on problems after the sales is made and your money is in their hands.Any one got one set up and running?The good and the bad please?
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mattthehairy
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2011 07:55 - Edited by: mattthehairy
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From my own research it seems that small wind turbines aren't quite there in the sense that they are very difficult to make them pay for themselves. Also, the power available from the wind is based on the cube of the wind speed, so unless you have some good wind in your area it might be tough to generate decent electricity even though the turbine is capable of 400W output.
I've seen some 400W turbines that require wind to blow at 28mph. Because the power available is cubic a lower wind speed drops the generated power very low in comparison to the turbines rating..
I did find this page about how to build one that can supposedly generate 200W... and I'm interested in getting one going
http://www.thekevdog.com/projects/wind_generator/
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davestreck
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2011 17:30
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I have an Air Marine 400W 12V wind turbine that was given to me by a customer, and I have been wondering if it is worth it to hook up to my planned solar system. Still haven't decided if I should keep it it or sell it on Craigslist...
An excellent resource for homebrew wind power is Otherpower.com. These guys are the ultimate DIY power wizards. They even built a wood fired 2kW steam-generator! Awesome stuff...
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mattthehairy
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2011 17:37
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that site seems really cool! Have you popped the thing up on a tower and checked what it is putting out? I mean if you got the thing for free it seems worth it to give it a shot as you don't really need to worry about the economics of it.
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bigfoot5678
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2011 11:16
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http://www.tlgwindpower.com/videos/tlg500_main.htm
You might look into this source. They do not rate theirs with the false rating method most others use. And it turns and produces amps in low winds...like 5-6 mph breezes.
very high quality, aluminum and stainless steel.
kinda pricey ...but built to last 10-15 yrs with no maint.
I have no connection to this outfit..but I do own one.
You can call and talk to this guy, he owns the company and has a wealth of info....called him once on a sunday and he answered and we chatted for 20 minutes....he knows his stuff.
FYI
Bigfoot
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small windturbine = no electricity
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# Posted: 13 Sep 2011 13:06
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http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/04/small-windmills-test-results.html
I already looked into this and came to the conculsions that for $/watt you are best with solar. Unless you have a decent creek/watersouce and a significant elevation drop then a small hydro-electric might be possible.
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Kithera
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# Posted: 14 Sep 2011 16:49 - Edited by: Kithera
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Unfortuately, I have to agree with this article, but only because of the horrid marketing of these smaller units.
One thing to take with a grain of salt, a good windturbine can generate some electricity all time time. From that article, an average of 8 watts over 24 hours for the smallest is still 200Whrs, and in my area where during winter we only get two hours of sun, that's the equivalent to a 100 watt panel. A 2 or 3 meter (6 or 10 feet diameter blades) could easily power a mid sized cabin.
I'm not sure if the amounts in the article include towers, but they can be a significant cost as well. I good rule of thumb from otherpower.com is 30 feet above anything 300 feet away. For some of these wooded areas, that can mean over 200 feet of tower.
Windpower does have a flatter return of investment curve, and there is a break even point which wind becomes cheaper. But for a small, minimally electric cabin (meaning no AC), solar is most likely your best bet.
Wind power can be a more rewarding for a DIYer, as the only true commercially purchased requirement is strong permanent magnets. The rest can be done by hand, requiring only time.
One final point. All wind turbines generate vibrations, and if attached to a roof, those vibrations can be felt across the entire home, and in extreme cases, can cause serious damage to the structure. Anyone company that wants to put one on your roof should be shown the door.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2011 01:06
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+1 on Solar.
I thought about wind power but need my cabin to be 'hidden'. Putting "motion" on a pole high up doesn't work for my situation.
Also water power can be noisy; which might disrupt your solitude but also can cause curious folks to come looking for what's making that racket.
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2011 05:57
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One of my co-workers has got one and he has had good luck with it.But he lives on the shore of lake ontario and has a nice constant wind.My land is wide open to the west but I can't go as high as recommended.I'm thinking windmill for winter use and solar for summer use and generator if both wind and solar are not co-operating.
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Mtnviewer
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2011 20:40 - Edited by: Mtnviewer
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I've had a TLG wind turbine for 2+ years & it's worked as designed with no problems in even the highest winds for this area. BUT, I only tried the wind route due to already having a 50 ft robust lattice tower already erected & in place by the property's previous owner. It isn't the most ideal location but it still works. I have a 24 volt battery inverter system.
Things I've learned: To benefit from wind, you need CONSTANT WIND OF A HIGH VELOCITY, HOUR AFTER HOUR AFTER HOUR, or otherwise, you will only get a trickle charge type effect & that power volume is hardly useable. My area is more gusty than constant, & the short gusts, no matter how strong, just don't add enough to the batteries. The wind REALLY needs to be constant & I'd say at least 15 kilometers per hour, which very few sites may have of a constant type.
The turbine needs a huge cleared area, preferably 360 degrees around the turbine of as many meters as possible. Articles say of 100 meters all around to avoid turbulence. I do have some trees & a building off angle to the prevailing wind, which may cause some turbulence but it doesn't seem to be a huge factor, as there is enough distance otherwise in the prevailing direction.
The tower may cost you as much or more than the turbine. A lattice tower is fine, but is a HUGE PITA to climb. A tilt down tower would be preferrable, but becomes more complex as the turbine increases in size & weight.
Unless your turbine is VERY close to your batteries, which isn't practical given that you really should have the turbine flying in very clear air, then the cable from the turbine to the batteries may cost you as much as the turbine in order to avoid losses of power over distance. TLG's suggestion to use an ordinary extension cord is plain stupid unless the turbine is right beside your house, which is also stupid, as the house would greatly interfere with the turbine's efficiency.
Terry at TLG knows what he knows, but he also thinks he knows what he doesn't know. He's helpful to a point. His turbine is well made, far more robust than the crappy Air-X turbines. The turbine is nearly silent but it does have a hum harmonic at a certain wind speed, but it is a very brief type of hum as the blades speed up & down.
The 5-6 mph stated to produce amps is a bare bare minimum to get maybe 1 amp for a 12 volt low capacity set up. The wind really needs to be double to triple that speed. TLG has his own spin on bullshit. Sure it will produce power at a very low speed, but ONLY if that speed is constant hour after hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.
My turbine is 100+ feet from my cabin/batteries (not ideally far enough but it's at least up wind of my house) & the brief hums don't bother me & it tells me when the wind is strong enough.
Knowing what I know now, I would not get a wind turbine, but instead would use the money for solar panels. The wind turbine is but one part of the entire set up. The main problem with wind, is that the wind MUST be constant hour after hour to really benefit in charging batteries. The 2nd problem with wind is clear area around the turbine. The 3rd problem is a tower is required which can be expensive & or difficult to climb or both. The 4th problem with wind power is the cost of 3 phase wiring to and from the turbine to the batteries, which can be great given the turbine's requirement for clear air. A site must be darn near perfect for constant fast wind, hour after hour.
As well, the TLG turbine blades are borderline long enough IMO. Another foot or two with a 1000 watt alternator would be better for my area & I'd think for others. He used to make longer blades but not any more. Also, he isn't keen on helping upsize from his basic model.
I think the TLG turbine is barely adequate but better built & more useable than others in it's size. I have no problems with the aluminum blades. They have preformed well. Perhaps they are at their limit though for length vs. strength vs. output, & that is why he caps them at this size?
If I didn't have a tower here already & knowing what I know now, I'd go solar if I had to do it all over again. Or, if I insisted on trying wind, then I'd opt for a turbine / alternator with longer blades.
I also no longer support TLG due to hearing his Republican / Conservative bizarre bullshit rants on politics & life. His turbines are simply not so great to be able to look past his bizarre political views. The turbine is really to small for good real world real wind performance.
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neb
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2011 21:51
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The wind generation idea is a very hard pay off. The money you will have invested in one of these units will take years to come out even. The maintinance and the life span will put you back where you started from. This is just me and not here to take away from the other posts and thoughts on wind generation. Wind generation on the big scale are not a profitable venture for power company's. They do it because the gov. want's more green and is a requirement. Energy can not be stored in a kettle and used when we are short of power. If the wind blows the system may not need the energy at that time and when we need more power the wind doesn't blow. It is a great idea but not efficient in any way. Please don't get me wrong I'm al for going green but it will take all man kind to make a differance.
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Mtnviewer
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2011 07:04 - Edited by: Mtnviewer
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Neb, if one has the right location for wind & has batteries for storing the power then wind can be an excellent & affordable resource. Large scale too seems to be working, again in perfect sites. Large scale just feeds the grid. If wind power goes on line, then less coal is burned, or less water is funneled through the turbines, etc., saving those on demand energy resources for when demand is higher or there is no wind.
The last 2 days at my off grid cabin have been constantly very windy as a large storm blows through & the power produced has powered my computer, lights, the TV, & a few other items as well as being stored in my battery bank for later use. But most days the wind at my site is not constant enough. As well the TLG blades & alternate are too small to capture power in my less than stormy winds.
T
Wind works if you have a CONSTANT supply. The maintenance has been minimal over 2 yrs, though there can be significant maintenance for some. Nothing is perfect & shit happens. I think for a DIY person, making a wind system is an affordable way to get better results. Sadly for me, my site doesn't have constant enough wind, I'm not handy enough at DIY, & the TLG is just too small unless a storm blows through at MY location.
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neb
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2011 21:36 - Edited by: neb
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Mtnviewer
My post was aimed at energy generation from wind trubines that electric company have to support because of Gov. regulations and requirermants. High voltage power isn't stored any where and goes on the grid through transmission lines. This cannot be stored like these small wind generation plants like you are talking about. Coal generation just can't shut down or slow down because the wind is blowning it just doesn't work like that. Wind is a very unpredicable source and not reliable source of generation. It is not efficient because of cost to these large windmills and because they are not in constant operation. I work in the field and have been involved in wind generation on the large side of transmission side and results are not good. I'm sure you have searched the web from the pro's to the con's and there is many great articles about this subject. I know of two people that have had tower's built for wind generation and both after 6 to 10 years have had there blades chained down because of high costs and very little return on their investment. I know these people and it was going to be a way for them to save but in the end it cost them more and never been able to turn a profit from wind. A small scale system for a cabin may be fine but it does have a down side also. The one thing I love about wind is it is clean and great for the world and yes it is free. If every town, county and state would have wind Gen it would make a differance but even then it would be still only would be a second source because it is not reliable source. Wind Gen is also a problem becuase when wind blows it puts more on the grid then the grid can handle and causes problems. That is another whole differant topic and a problem for transmission grid and power regulation. I will say all energy captured from wind does help but again it may not be at the right time for consumption and the results is wasted energy not being used and lost.
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easyshack
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2011 13:58
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we live in zone 8 wind. our average wind speed is 26 mph, That is a yearly average. we do see wind speeds to 90 mph at times.
Even with the great wind we have, only about 25% of our power is from wind generator. Just having a wind generator turn, does not make power. Remember figures dont, lie. BUT LIERS FIGURE. Becareful about advertizings telling you output. Unless you have great wind all the time, wind generators are not a wise place to spend money.
Remember there is a differance of a windmill turning, and one that makes power.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2011 16:04 - Edited by: TomChum
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I'm generally interested in all kinds of contraptions, and power from wind, sun, water, fire..... But my place has no reliable wind so I don't look at it any more than a curiosity. However, I just got done looking at http://www.tlgwindpower.com/videos/tlg500_main.htm.
However, these are hard times to make a living, and even rational people do strange things when the income is not covering the costs. For his customers' sake I hope he's keeping quality up, and just 'bumping up the marketing'. For me though, pics like that, especially when marketing a technical item, reduce credibility.
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Mtnviewer
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2011 16:19 - Edited by: Mtnviewer
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Yes TLG added another reason for folks to question his credibility. Bizarre marketing to me! I likely would not have bought the turbine had he used that marketing a few years ago. But, I just had 3 days of very high mph wind & gusts, mixed with snow & rain & cold, & good output from the TLG. It isn't enough to ever overcook my 24 volt battery system, so my overload element is never used. But I did get good charging, used lots of power, & didn't use my diesel generator during this time. It is better suited to a 12 volt system, but it does work & in it's 3 years of use has had no problems. It may be the best value for it's type. But you still need a high tower, lots of clear space & lots of big wire which all add to cost. To do all that, I'd now go bigger & or build my own.
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Rakesh S
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2011 15:25
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Hi Guys,
I am a Graduate student at the University of North Dakota at Grand Forks, ND. Currently, I am researching on various small wind turbines 300-600 watt wind turbines for my thesis. We did buy a 400 Watt system that promises a lot, but when we installed it on a 24' pole, it did not function as desired. North Dakota gets the best winds in the country and even at 20-25 Mph wind speeds, we have seen the turbine generate only about 150 Watts.
We contacted the supplier and asked them to send their test stats. They did send the stats with the wind speed, RPM and power output of the turbine.
Now I am at a stage where I want to run some Lab tests on the turbine to see if it actually turns out enough power at the set RPM. I plan on coupling this turbine to a 400Watt motor we have in the lab using a pulley to test it.
The question I have is, Is there any better way to test the turbine / generator in a laboratory setting? I'd like to see if the blades design is flawed or if it is the generator design that's flawed and preventing the power out at 25 Mph wind speeds.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and best regards,
Rakesh
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Nirky
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2011 00:35
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MQaT9EbMDQ&list=PLF66549BAC2FE067E&index=7&feature=pl pp_video
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Pylonman
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2011 15:31
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A small turbine will works just great. Just don't expect instant results. I've got a small 175 Watt wind turbine with PVC blades I picked up from ebay and it's mounted on a DIY 35' tower. I've never measured the output, but it works great to keep my (4) six volt golf cart style batteries trickle charged. If you head up to your cabin, say, maybe twice a month, it will be just fine. If you're looking for a faster charge, use the portable generator a feed the battery bank with a steady 15 - 20 amp charge for 5 hours. I also have a DIY 80 watt solar panels, but, (in the winter, when you're not there) they don't work when covered with snow or a night. A small wind turbine is a nice complement to your system or a piece a mind knowing my batteries won't freeze. Also, a big turbine, could create big problems in a wind storm, dump load, fire, etc.
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Wilbour
Member
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 15:33
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Yup, I clicked the photo at the bottom of the message board. This is where it brought me. Got my attention!
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:21
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ha. wilbour. you crazy guy. 2011. kind of time tho for an update on wind.
here's what I've learned from "talking" and researching.
1) in my area it's a no go due to low wind. okay. fair enough.
2) watch the bearings (this from an alternative energy student). apparently the million dollar huge towers get amazing bearings. the little guys ... not so much.
3) solar +2
wilbour. might be useful for you in PEC. there's some steady breezes there no?
ack. I'm supposed to be planting potatoes. back at 'er.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:22
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Quoting: TomChum TLG's choice of photos suggests to me that they might be inclined to use various methods to get your attention, possibly even overstate performance. But I'm kind of a skeptic. You be the judge. 
All he needs are some babies and puppies and he'll have the advertising trifecta!
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