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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2011 20:05
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Hey guys,
I have a 12x24 cabin and plan to build another that is closer to where I want to be. Well, short story... I decided the cost of building close to the electrical pole is not worth is.. so..
I need an alternative. The biggest thing I need is A/C.. period.. a few lights is nice.. but A/C is my goal.
The cabin will be about 400 sq ft, but it is SW Texas and hotter than hell.. so I need powah.
I thought about a propane generator because I HATE having to fill the thing with gas when I wake up and go to bed every day.
Any ideas?
I will probably put a 23,500 watt largest home depot has window unit in the thing.. lol.. so it will need to run that and some lights.
I was thinking that if I add a 250 gallon propane bottle, I could run it till the cows come home.
I have a 14k watt portable a/c but my 6000 watt generator can run that and a couple lights and that is it.. and it is not enough to cool jack.
I really do need some ideas here.
Thank you all.
Russ
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2011 20:44
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How about a swamp cooler? They require less power, tho the newer energy efficient AC units don't use too much.
Not sure of the answer, I simply can't exist without AC in the summer, or leaving the lower country to the high mountains for the summer. I'm on grid.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 25 Sep 2011 21:33 - Edited by: jrbarnard
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I looked at the evap systems and they seem to be a great choice, but with water being so scarce, and I do not have a water well, that might not be the one I need to get.
I was looking at a 23,500 btu window unit but would need to make sure I get a generator that runs off of propane and can run the window unit.
Here is the window unit I was thinking of:
WINDOW UNIT
GENERATOR
It does "okay" but the 14k portable a/c is not enough and I can only plug one in... also, hate goign through gas.
I figured that if I get a high end generator that runs off propane.. like maybe 10k watts? I could run the big A/C window unit and lights etc for as long as I wanted. (nice to have lights at night.. etc)
R
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 13:51
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i built a deck for someone recently and she had a 10K watt propane generator. it only ran for 3 hours on a 75 pound bottle and it was just at an idle
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 15:36
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hrm.. that is not good. Well, I saw one listed as stating it uses about 2.5 gallons of liquid propane per hour, so that makes sense.
I need to look into all of this as the whole thing is just perplexing.. grin.
Not sure about solar energy, I do not know a whole lot about it and my mind works so that all I can think of is, "what if it hails? Will it destroy the solar panels etc?"
So, I have to give the whole thing a lot of thought. I know that, in order to enjoy the cabin 12 months out of the year, the heat is so bad that I have GOT to do something about an a/c unit and power for that, but I also know that running to town every day for gas is a little excessive, as is keeping 20 gallons on-site.
Not sure.. guess I need to think on this a lot more.
R
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 16:32
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I don't think you want to pay for a solar system that would pull that much current for an AC unit that size.
How much would it be to get power run to the site?
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 17:34
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17k bucks.. out of the question :p
I was thinking a solar setup for the lights and a generator that runs off propane for the a/c
R
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2Dogs
Member
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2011 18:39 - Edited by: 2Dogs
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If you are in an area of Texas with low humidity a swamp cooler is the way to go. They don't require much water or near as much power.
You can make your own using 12v automotive fans and a submersible 12v pump.
The Field Lab has a version of a small one JW built. There are detailed pics of how he built that small one. He used four 12v computer fans.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 06:04
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Curious, when you say it does not require a large amount of water, anyone have numbers?
Sorry.. trying to calculate the size water tank to get and would hate to pay 250 gallons a month to fill it :p
R
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 06:59
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I live in a 400sqft house in KS. This past Summer, there were over 50 days of triple digit temps and my 10,000 BTU window unit kept the inside at 72*. The largest electricity bill was $103. Put your money into insulation, reflective metal roof, good windows, and a small diesel generator (4KW) with a large fuel tank.
We had a swamp cooler when I was stationed in Yuma, AZ; its really dry there, but the humidity introduced by the cooler made it uncomfortable and only lowered the temp inside the house by 15* or so. When it was 114* outside, it was still in the high 90's inside!
Tom
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mgc
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 07:25
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Russ, the A/C unit you are considering seems too large for the squ. ft. you have. Looking online they suggest 10,000 BTU for 400 squ. ft., which would reduce your power needs. We too are in Texas but further south near the Coast and the need for A/C is understandable, but we use a 3500 watt gen. and a very, very small window unit, yes we are 1/4 the size of your place, but you should be able to get by with a much smaller unit.
Did you build your cabin or was it on the property when purchased, insulation is the root of this question. If nothing is insulated (walls or attic) then you might be able to improve your situation by insulating the attic really good and ensuring that a lot of air moves through the attic (soffit vents) and ridge vent if possible. My first house had attic insulation, didn't have wall insulation but was very ventilated in the attic, I had a 110 A/C unit that cooled the entire house (very small house, 800 squ ft) and I was younger and tougher, but it did fine. Our cabin is very well insulated, we can run about 12 hours on tank of gas. Just thinking that insulation can help if it isn't already there.
Swamp coolers are a good idea, not sure if they are used in your area, I have seen them around Sanderson and west of there but not sure about Rocksprings. I did have a friend in Sonora that was 10 miles from power so he probably had them there, that is getting closer to you I think.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 08:32 - Edited by: jrbarnard
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MGC,
I agree the A/C is a bit much and, if the cabin is built right, we probably do not need one so large. My problem is wasting money buying one and then having to upgrade.
The cabin we are using now was on the ranch prior to us so it is what it is. They did not, it appears, use any radiant barrier and it has a barn-style roof. The heat it captures is unreal. It can be 95 outside and it will be 105 inside. There is insulation on the walls, and in the ceiling, but that does not appear to be stopping anything. I have a portable 14000 BTU a/c and it knocks the temp down about 2 degrees, but then loses ground for some reason.
I have a 5250 watt portable generator and it appears to have an issue running a 9000 btu unit plus the 14000 btu unit at the same time, although the amps should be below the max. I think it has something to do with pulling all the amps from the same 220 connection. I tried plugging the 9000 btu unit directly to the 110 connection, but that tripped too, but at least it only tripped the 110...i.e. I would need two 220 connections and only have 1.
The high this summer was 111 in early September. You can imagine what it was like inside that cabin.
So, I will be building the new cabin smarter.. I hope. I plan to use radiant barrier on every side and on the roof, to see if it helps.
Martian: You say a metal roof reflects heat better than shingles? I can switch to a metal roof if it does, and have the radiant barrier under it, that is not a problem. I was thinking that, for insulation, shingles would be better, but do not mind using metal at all (in fact I would love a green metal roof if color is not a big deal.. heh).
Water is a HUGE aspect, and the only pause I have as far as a swamp cooler. But, I think that if I add what you are all stating and keep on track, my normal window unit should be able to cover the heat without using a swamp cooler.
I will have a 2500 gallon water tank next to the house for the bathroom etc, but it costs about 400 dollars to fill and I have not worked out the details of pressurizing a water line yet (plumbing is not my forte..but I learn fast)..so.. may not have an issue with a swamp cooler so long as it does not use a ton of water... literally ;)
Russ
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 09:05
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How much money do you think it is going to cost to set up a system and to run it verses spending the 17 k for power? I wish we had a power line close to our cabin. The nearest is a mile from us. I hope we can use our cabin off grid as we age. Being able to just flick a switch is well worth the cost if you have access to power.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 09:12
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Well, 17k is a rough and low estimate. See, we would have to pay
- 250 just to apply for power.
- New road to get them TO the power about $7000
- Run power just under 200 feet - $3500
If we wanted them to run the power to the new cabin location, would be about 17000-20000...and that is a guess, not sure as it is rough country...and that is IF I let them cross the land, which I would not do, I would want them to follow the current fence line, which would probably double that price.
For me to use portable power, about $1000 for a really nice portable propane generator?
Then to add a 250 gallon propane tank, about $11 a month and 580 to fill it. I expect that if I build the cabin well, the propane would last me at least a year since we do not need it in the cooler times.
$1800 - $3000 for solar power to run lights at night.
So, a lot cheaper than the hook-up.... although I agree, I wish to heck I could get the electrical line run.
Russ
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 13:44
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Russ, if all you have to run is 200' to the cabin, have power run to a pole next to the fence and run your own power from there. I ran 170' from our power pole to the cabin underground in conduit. It cost about $1000. For pressure water, look at RV/boat systems for how its done.
As a general rule, a/c units pull about 1amp/1000btu's. There must be a problem with either the a/c units or the breakers on your genset if a 50amp genset won't run a small a/c.
Tom
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 13:51
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Yea, if I was going to run electricity, I would be better off doing like you said, have them put a pole right next to where that pole is and then run it in conduit myself. That is a great idea.
The issue is the fact I cannot get the materials for the house TO where I would want to build it.
The road going up there winds too much to pull a trailer up that hill, especially one with all those parts.
So, either I need to hire someone to spend a few days hauling as much as they can and making multiple trips...which is still an option, but I would need to cut a road the rest of the way, or I can build down below next to the main ranch road.
It costs less, but means I need a different source of power.
R
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trollbridge
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 13:59
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Fellow member Bigfoot5678 who is also in Texas mentioned that it is very common to see secondary roofs over the top of cabins to help with the heat. Would this be a practical option for you to consider? If you can keep it cooler, ceiling fans or attic fans would help too, Then maybe you could go with a smaller ac unit.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 14:34
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Agreed. I think the issue is not the heat but the fact the current cabin is not well built to withstand the heat. I plan to build the roof with radiant barrier THEN add on a metal roof. I also plan to add an "attic fan" that will suck the heat out while I am cooling the place down.
That should get the job done.
R
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 21:14
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Your metal roof needs to be "light" colored to reflect the heat. Galvalume is good to maximize heat reflection. If you decide to re-roof, I would suggest screwing 2X4 stripping over the existing roof and place 11/2" foam between the old roof and the new metal.
Tom
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2011 21:27
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Well, I will be building it from scratch, so no re-roofing. I will be using the current "cabin" as storage and guest bunk house, so not that often enough to warrant spending money on right now.
Russ
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