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optimistic
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 21:52
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Hey all,
I will have a 1150ft road and two clearings. I won't put any item down as it is so expensive. I will try to see if my all wheel gets buried in first.
I had this crazy idea - what if I simply buy 200 cinder blocks ( will cost about 330$ with tax), make two rows spaced at 4" each from block to block while they will be spaced between them for most cars/ trucks to pass - which will be the entire length of my road, and bury them until they are flush with the surface making them 8" deep.... So yes, this will be hell to do but I guess that over time with a shovel and wheel barrel I can do it. The question is - will it work?
Another question, my land has tons of huge trees and although I do have different species (oak, maple, birch, and so on) about 85-90% of them are pine. many are Hamlock (not sure if correct spelling) according to the road builder who knows trees.... I was told you cannot burn pine in a wood burning stove indoors. Is that true? I won't be able to heat my cabin with my pine?
Last Q - anyone knows a good link to the anatomy of a camper?
Thanks all!
Pictures soon.
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 22:02 - Edited by: OwenChristensen
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A row of 100 cinder blocks is only 67 ft. Gravel is way cheaper. Of course you can burn pine in a wood stove. It won't keep a fire overnight though. He might mean you shouldn't burn it in a open fireplace. Because of the pitch it pops and can throw sparks.
Owen
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optimistic
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 22:25
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My bad... wrong calculation. It is actually 2300 cinder blocks and the cost will be 4k with tax. Still much lower then the gravel road. If I can make two gravel rows like the cinder blocks then it will probably be cheaper but I think that might not be possible.
So this is another idea - you think an excavator can make two small ditches of 12" wide each and then fill it up with gravel? that will use a lot less gravel but might be more work intensive... thoughts?
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 22:26
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Pine is a soft wood. It is not safe to burn pine in a wood stove because of the creosote it creates.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 22:33
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Why don't you get advise from the people building your road? They know the terrain and will be able to help you. Don't skimp on a road. You will be sorry if you can't get your supplies back to your cabin if the road is impassable.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 22:42
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Burning pine in a woodstove is typically considered a no-no, because of the amount of creosote it leaves in behind. I would not recommend using it for that purpose but if you do make sure you keep a close eye on the buildup and get your stove and flu cleaned much more frequently. Left unchecked it will create problems, maybe the worst case being a chimney fire- very dangerous.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 22:44
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I was hoping to use all that pine I have around in my land... Is there any other way? I won't want to danger myself.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 23:02
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Yes buy some hardwood to burn.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 01:37
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I have mostly pine at my place and burn it with no worries. Google for more reliable information. I heard about the concerns and read many sources on the subject. Found out that some hard woods can cause as much or more build up. The real problems come from burning wood that is not seasoned enough. Also, unless your staying at your cabin all winter and burning every day, build up will take long time. I'm not suggesting one should not inspect your chimney often. I'm just saying pine does not deserve the bad reputation.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 02:21
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As "anonymous" stated above, pine is perfectly fine to burn as long as it is well seasoned. Sure everyone would like to burn oak or birch or whatever, but not everyone has the good fortune to have something other than pine. Repeat: the key is to have well seasoned, dry pine. We burn 90% pine because that is what we have. The pine we;ll be burning this fall and winter was cut two years ago, minimum. Split a year ago. Stored under cover. It is great firewood.
As for the road, talk to locals who build roads. Don't try to reinvent the road; chances are it won't work. One thing I have learned is that if you pile rock, or whatever on top of organic material, the rock or whatever will sink through the organic material sooner or later. Rock or concrete blocks. A good road is built by first scrapping away the organoc matter and then filling with good crushed rock. Anything else will mean a heavier maintenance schedule.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 08:47
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Great Advice!
So by well seasoned you mean very dry.. Got ya. Good to know
Scratching off the 'crazy idea'. I won't put item though... I will see if I can handle without it for a while. I will also get a winch which is about 150$ just in case I get stuck there a few times.
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 13:05 - Edited by: Dillio187
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dry pine is fine. When in doubt, clean your chimney sooner rather than later. problem solved. Having grown up in northern MN, all we mostly burned for years in the winter was fallen jack pine. yes, it did not burn for hours and hours, but it did burn hot.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 14:56 - Edited by: TomChum
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Quoting: MtnDon Don't try to reinvent the road; chances are it won't work.
True. Every roadbuilder you will meet has been trying to offer customers the most efficient method to make a road for 20 years. It's highly unlikely that you will think of a better way during your first attempt. Your best bet is to get several quotes from local roadbuilders, each one will have variations and will tell you why their way is better, and from that you will gain many years of experience. And all of it will be with regards to the LOCAL soils. Which is better than asking people on the internet who could not possibly know better what to do on YOUR soil.
Regarding cinderblocks for a road, maybe wait until you see one that's been tested for 20 years IN YOUR AREA and go ask how they did it. I don't advise being the guineapig.
My driveway is dirt and gravel. Where the dirt causes problems I add gravel. I think you should just try driving on the dirt and add gravel to the problem areas. After it's all done and you have money left over then gravel the whole driveway.
And since firewood (off-topic) discussion has not suprisingly polluted your driveway thread......
If you have a small cabin, and are agile enough to climb on the roof, brushing your chimney once in awhile is far less work and cost than importing special firewood; and will be more satisfying. If you can mix in some other woods that's also a good way to burn pine.
Create a simple way to keep your pine dry, that's the best. If there is a tree with dry ground under it even when raining, stack it there. It's fairly easy to create a simple shed between 2 trees, with some steel roofing, just enough to keep the rain off. If you have heavy snow make sure there's support if it could get snowed on.
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creeky
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 15:37
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I have organic/clay/silt soil. Great for growing stuff, lousy for road building. (My first Sept. it was really rainy and a guy bringing in some foundation gravel sunk to his axles ...) I found a great post from the university of Minnesota (I think???).
What they recommended was to excavate the top 6" of grass and organic material. Then put down a 12 foot wide road fabric. Then lay in a 4" layer of 3" minus crushed gravel and top dress with 1.5" minus crushed.
The road fabric I found at a wholesaler. 225 a roll in Canada (400 feet). The gravel has to be crushed as the splintered rock locks together.
It's two years. I've had big trucks in and out. And I haven't even had to dress the gravel. My gravel is still floating above the soil.
Try to get someone who knows how to dump gravel. Because I built the first part of the road in the spring I had to gravel it myself with the front end loader. Took days of work. The next part, late summer, I got a guy with a square back dump truck and he just poured out the rock perfectly. Didn't have to touch it. I tell you, it's nice to watch someone pour 200' of top dress in a few minutes!
According to the university I've got a road that'll last at least 30 years. That's what I'm talking about!
And if you have birch and what not, look for a dead or dying hardwood tree and take the pine to a local mill for boards. 
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TomChum
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 16:34 - Edited by: TomChum
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Quoting: creeky I got a guy with a square back dump truck and he just poured out the rock perfectly. Didn't have to touch it. I tell you, it's nice to watch someone pour 200' of top dress in a few minutes!
Same here. I graveled some parts of my original road the same way. Driver was excellent, was so helpful to have him spread the gravel almost perfectly.
Once I chose my cabin site, I had to add about 1000 feet of DIRT road (off the gravel road) to the cabin. It has a couple minor hills that would be a problem if slick with mud --- but it's never been slick, even when storming, I think due to the carpet of pine needles.
Building the cabin was done in the summer, no problem for the trucks.
I have no gravel on this section, it's just dirt covered with pine needles. I would just drive on it for awhile and gravel it ---- as it becomes necessary. I prefer the look and quiet of pine needles and I DON'T like the sound of gravel near the cabin.
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AYP1909
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 18:11
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Optimistic, trust the wisdom of MtnDon and TomChum.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 19:16
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Great advise here but everybody has different soil so what you need to do is talk to the local people building your road they will know what you need.
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 22:00 - Edited by: Rifraf
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Hi,
I didnt have time to read all the replies so please forgive me if im repeating. I wanted to put down my experience with my roads.
The first road I used surface gravel, 2 inches thick all the way down.. this was in December.. I had to re coat it recently with another 2 inches .. the first coat sunk in too much
The second road I had two inches of what they called "base gravel" that seems to be a clay rock mix, and it sets like concrete after a few rains. unlike the normal gravel first two or so inches havent sank.. yet.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2012 17:50
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I know whatcha mean,I have put in 150 ton's of driveway mix and the mud just swallows it up and gone.I'm gonna order another 40 ton's pretty soon.I hope to keep adding layer after layer each year till I'm happy with the results.Driveway's only 200 feet or so.21 ton's costs me around 300 dollars.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2012 23:53
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Ray it sounds like you need to scrape off 6 inches and put some fabric under.
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