|
| Author |
Message |
stoverr2
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 11:10
Reply
Happy Friday All!!
First a little background since I've not been on in too long. I have a small 12x20 cabin deep in the woods of South Eastern Ohio. Nothing special, no running water yet, and only 45w of solar panels connected to a 7A controller and 2 deep cycle batteries. Everything is running at 12v. When I say "everything" that means the handful of LED lights and the security panel/sirens.
What I'm trying to do now is add in some motion lights on the exterior of the cabin. Not as much security, but more for convenience sake. I've searched the world over (wait, HeeHaw just popped in my head, sorry) and can't seem to find anything that I can readily connect into my distribution panel at 12v. I know there are stand alone units that use batteries that must be replaced, or small solar panels to recharge internal batteries, but I was hoping for something more. (aren't we all?)
I have considered retro-fitting some of the lights that are available, mainly the straight replaceable battery versions, to accept a stepped down current from my distribution panel using a 12v to 5v/6v reducer. That would allow me to make use of the motion sensor that is built into the lamps.
I have several concerns/questions with this method.
First, the heat dissipation from using a linear reducer seems too extreme and inefficient. I believe I would also have to solder in a reducer at every light, not overly costly since they are very inexpensive, but VERY time consuming. Not to mention that heat dissipation issue, I would need a heat sink in each lamp.
Second method is somewhat more attractive, but I'm not really sure if I can make this happen or not. If I were to use a switching regulator as opposed to a linear version, can I then install that near the distribution panel and then simply run my normal wiring from that point forward?
It would probably help to have a little bit more info about the lamps I have considered using. They are Mr Beams MB390. They operate on 4 D Cell Batteries. According to their customer service area, which is first rate by the way, they draw between 3A and 4A when lit, and less than 1 mA in standby.
Now, all that being said, in an ideal world, I would love to be able to wire directly and not have to worry about the voltage difference. It would be great to have a motion detector that would trip between 1 and 4 lamps depending on location. Maybe having up to 4 motion detectors controlling different areas around the cabin. None of the lamps would be further than 30 feet from the distribution panel. I have not had any luck finding weatherproof lamps and detectors that I would be able to wire directly into the 12v panel.
Any advice, feedback, etc would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 12:53
Reply
I think you will find lots of options that will work directly. I'll let you know what I did and you can take away whatever applies. My DC has two circuits - the main cabin circuit that is turned off when we leave and a secondary circuit (happens to be fed from the "Load" of the charge controller to provide the battery run down protection" that remains on for the motion sensors, lights and any thing else I may add in the future. I split the lights and motion sensors apart to provide more flexibility. I have two Optex Outdoor PIR Motion Detectors Detectors and matched each with two LED flood lights Lights - these little lights provide a lot of light but are focused so need to be up higher to give a good spread.
The motion sensors contain a relay circuit (either Normal On or Normal OFF circuits which connect to the 12 v system and have the output to any lights you use (12 volts). They work great!
As I always do, I complicated my setup as I wanted to be able to override the motion sensor to keep a light on (if I need it on to do some work and don't want to jump up and down every 10 seconds). For this I added an inside wall switch that powered a low draw relay (not a standard auto relay as they generally use a lot of power). Flicking this switch bypassed the motion sensor and powered the lights until switched off. Because the relay is powered by the main DC circuit, if the switch is left on when we leave, the relay will automatically go back to the normal state and the Motion Sensor is back on. To make matters even more complicated, my 10 year old, when reviewing the plans, stated "don't you want to be able to turn them off as well for when we have a camp fire?". I hate smart kids! Thus, for the set of lights directed towards the lake I added a 60 minute timer on the patio (backwards timer in that it is normally ON but cuts power to the mention sensor when turned on). It all sounds worse than it really is. Hopefully this will give you some ideas - if nothing else there are lots of motion sensors and lights that you could hook up directly.
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 13:27
Reply
I'll add one other thing - if you decide you would rather power the specific lights you mentioned directly and centrally, at 4 amps/6volts they draw a fair bit of power that you may not be able to supply from a standard home built switching regulator using the standard IC, especially if you plan to run multiple lights at a time. It's been a while since I reviewed the specs. A couple of years ago I adapted a number of the Costco hockey puck type lights to run off the camping trailers 12 volts. This was easy as a cheap IC and resistor was all that was needed but they draw very little power. Something like this DC Converter might be an easier way to go. If you want to build one yourself search a number of the classic car sites as they are often trying to convert 12 volts to power the older 6 volt stuff.
|
|
ackray
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 22:18
Reply
Has anyone tried the solar power led lights? I was looking at some of these on amazon a while ago. Seemed like good value.
|
|
SE Ohio
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 09:03
Reply
I tried a Harbor Freight LED motion detector security light , but it was not bright enough to cast a shadow. Others have had better luck. These are 6 volters, so might wire in series to connect to your battery or just stand alone? Might want to buy several and return dimmer ones.
|
|
stoverr2
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 09:04
Reply
Raz, thanks for the input. As I mentioned, I'm grasping at straws here. I like the lamps you linked to, they're available on Amazon for around $15 each.
http://www.amazon.com/Flood-Light-Outdoor-Waterproof-6000~6500K/dp/B00A3MY5QK/ref=sr_ 1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1370867945&sr=8-3&keywords=12v+flood
Certainly a nice option, if only I can find a cost effective Motion Detector. I like the one you mentioned from Optex, but can't afford to pay $300-$400 plus lamps for the setup I have in mind. I still have to purchase everything to get the stove installed before winter and that'll take a huge chunk of money to accomplish.
SE OHIO, I hadn't considered wiring 6v lamps in series, I'll have to ponder that for a bit. I think I'll still come back to the same problem of having to track down Motion Detectors. However, if I were able to cannibalize the motion detectors from one lamp, I may be able to us that to operate several lamps....
More things to consider....
|
|
SE Ohio
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 09:27 - Edited by: SE Ohio
Reply
The Harbor Freight solar security lights are equipped with motion detectors and their own panel and battery, for about $30 each. As I mentioned, the one I purchased wasn't bright, but others have had better luck. http://www.harborfreight.com/led-solar-security-light-94747.html
This one (I've not tried) gets some good reviews: http://www.harborfreight.com/60-led-solar-security-light-69643.html
If you aren't set on motion detector ability, Lowe's sells a nice little set of 3 solar LED spotlights with its own panel.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_127456-59179-SPS1-BK-PK3_0__?productId=1214155&Ntt=solar+spot light&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dsolar%2Bspotlight&facetInfo=
There is long wire for each individual spotlight to connect to the panel. I have this setup and it does quite well with the lights staying on all night. There is a switch at the panel or one could add switches to each wire for some off-time. I've considered placing my spotlights indoors to make the cabin look occupied at night... They claim an 8 hour light time. Could increase light time by connecting fewer lights.
Nice thing about either setup is they are stand alone systems, minimal installation and no drain to main battery system.
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 09:50
Reply
Quoting: stoverr2 However, if I were able to cannibalize the motion detectors from one lamp, I may be able to us that to operate several lamps....
One thing I noticed in your original post that your stated "Not as much security, but more for convenience sake". Perhaps you are better to put up a number of these types of self contained systems that do not drain your main batteries wherever your need motion detection and just wire in a few extra 12v lights with switches to use when you need more light. Unless you have a low voltage cut-off (stand-alone, on your charge controller load output etc) there is always the risk that you end up draining your battery because one or more security lights get stuck on when you are away.
|
|
|
KSalzwedel
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 14:43
Reply
Have you looked into rv systems?
|
|
stoverr2
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 12:06
Reply
SE, I like the 60 LED one from Harbor Freight. I have looked at a similar one on Amazon. I realize I keep referring to Amazon as my source, but it's the easiest place to shop for a huge array of items. I don't always end up buying from there, but the free shipping on so many items makes it attractive for me. I'm not comfortable with the ones that stay on all night really. As Raz mentioned, I'm more interested in convenience than security, but at the same time, while I'm away, I don't want the lights to be broadcasting my cabin on the hill in the middle of the night.
Raz, The more I ponder, the more I think I'll end up with several banks of lights on switches for several reasons. One, being able to shut things off to sit around the firepit without lights blazing, another being the ability to save power if necessary. So far I've only got two batteries and I've never had a scenario where I've run them down, but that will change. You mentioned a low voltage cut-off. I believe my 10AMP Sunforce controller does cut me off if I run the batteries too low, but I'm not 100% positive on that.
http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-60031-Digital-Charge-Controller/dp/B001DZONCW/ref=cm_c r_pr_product_top
KSalzwedel, I've looked at RV systems and almost everything I'm finding is going back to AC as opposed to DC. I guess the majority of RV owners will be attached to a grid at an RV park, or have better battery charging capabilities than just using solar, thus can have an inverter on at all times. I'm not sure, but I'm finding very few things that are fitting my needs. I've also explored marine options, higher likelihood of a DC solution there, but not many security needs for boats unless they're at dock, and then they often times have the ability to tie in to the grid like an RV does...
I guess my overall goal is to reduce the need to swap out batteries or having the rechargeable batteries that come with the solar units go bad. I'm probably trying to make things more difficult for myself than they need to be, this has certainly been the case for the entire build of the cabin. For instance, I chose to design the cabin with a gambrel roof. Far more complex than a simple peaked roof, but it allows much more flexibility inside.
Sorry, I tend to ramble. LOL
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jun 2013 13:13
Reply
Quoting: stoverr2 I chose to design the cabin with a gambrel roof.
I think we share the same strength/weakness! I know my power system is far more complicated than really needed but it was a winter project doing the design and putting together the components. I too did Gambrel rafters - they took a long time to put together but the space in the lofts is amazing! With the power/lighting, part of the complexity came with wanting it to be easy and fool-proof for my wife and kids. I also did not want something that the kids could mess up by leaving a switch on or off and forgetting about it (hence things like a manual timer to override (shut off) the one set of security lights when we are sitting around a fire - once done the system comes back on automatically.
At this stage I think you just need to decide how to set up the options you want. I'm sure all the components you need are available (ignoring cost!!).
By the way - I do not think your controller has LOAD output with low battery protection (but may well be wrong). These are a third pair of connectors that draw power from the battery to feed into the system and can shut down if voltage drops too low. There are stand-alone low voltage components you can add. Something to consider when installing any system that may draw down the batteries (and potential damage them) while you are away - or just assume nothing will go wrong and take chances.
|
|
pondjumpr
Member
|
# Posted: 3 Jul 2013 09:58
Reply
I bought a Harbor Freight (36 LED I think) motion light that has a solar panel built in. From the start, I really liked it. After about a month, the light still worked but would trigger on, then off within a few seconds. In the beginning, it would stay on for quite a while, maybe 30 seconds to a minute. Then, it just stopped working all together. It has been off for over a month now, thinking it may need additional charging but it will nto funtion. I only paid $25 for mine so I am not out much and if it worked as designed, it would be great for my application and possibly yours.
Maybe I got a bad light.
I will say that I have seen more and more direct wire (probably 120v) motion sensing LED floodlights at Lowe's and Home Depot. They are in the $65-125 range but seem very bright compared to what I bought.
I hope you find your solution. Good luck.
|
|
SE Ohio
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Jul 2013 08:44
Reply
Pondjumpr,
If your light's solar panel is getting plenty of sun, it may need new rechargeable batteries ( old ones may not be holding a charge). I've had many HF batteries DOA, name brand batts might be a better value.
|
|
|
