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michigan98gt
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2010 02:17
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Hello all,
First time here. I am looking into getting an Ampair Water Turbine to charge up a bank of 2-3 batteries for a small 600 sq. ft. cabin. I chose the Ampair because I have very fast flowing stream that runs year round. I also chose this because it is inconspicuous.
I am wondering if anyone knows of any wiring diagrams to use to power the cabin off of DC. I do not want to use an inverter if at all possible but run everything off of DC. Almost all of the information I have found online refers to AC systems using inverters. Any help would be appreciated!
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islandguy
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2010 13:17
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RVs usually have 12 v circuits, so an rv store should have all you need. I found marine supply stores have better quality, but at higher prices. My cabin is 12 volt, and is pretty much wired the same as 115. I have a gel deep cycle battery running to a 12 volt fuse panel. Most of my lights are simply fixtures with ordinary light bulbs, 12 volt, 40-60 watt. We also use simple 12v rv light fixtures in the beddroom as reading lamps, mounted on the wall at head of the bed. We love them, since either or both of us can read as late as we like, then reach up and switch off. These fixtures also have a night light setting, and retail for about $12 each. I used 12 gauge wire, but lighter gauge would be acceptable.
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michigan98gt
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2010 16:50
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Thanks for the direction. I have heard a lot about the gel deep cycles. The cabin is locate in northern Michigan and experiences cold winters and hot summers. Are those batteries recommended for those conditions? I want to stick with 12 volt and not golf cart batteries. I also am open to any info regarding lifespan of these because I want a setup that will last years without changing the batteries.
Thanks!
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2010 23:34
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Quoting: michigan98gt I want to stick with 12 volt and not golf cart batteries
Any particular reason why?
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islandguy
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2010 15:20
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The gel cell is smaller and lighter than regular batteries, and will not spill water or acid, and do not vent gasses during charging. They can be transported on their side if need be, and mine, from Canadian Tire, cost about $300 and has a 5 year warranty. I only use the one battery, I take it home between cabin visits, and it will run our cabin for a weekend during the summer, without recharging. Often its dark when we arrive, so I use the dim light from my cell phone to see enough to hook up the battery, then start turning on lights and pump. Because its well suited for indoor intallation, I dont worry about reduced performance in freezing tempertures. Eventually I will fit it with a solar trickle charger, and just leave it on site, at least for the season.
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michigan98gt
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2010 17:54
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12 volt just because I don't want to be dependent upon both batteries working to get some juice. From my understanding, you need to run golf cart batteries in pairs. I have heard that they are reliable though.
Islandguy, that is what our plan is to do. Hook it up to the hydro generator and let it trickle charge with a charge controller all year. The stream does not freeze in the winter so we would keep the system hooked up all year. I don't think gel would be a good idea if it needs to be kept from freezing temps.
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islandguy
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2010 13:19
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Gel, or sealed units do not need to be protected from freezing, and my understanding is that they do not lose as much efficiency at freezing temps. Regular batteries can lose as much as 50% of their efficiency at below freezing, so keeping them fairly warm will improve efficiency, but then they need to be vented due to flammable gases produced during charging. Gel cells have no such worries, but can be quite expensive.
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michigan98gt
Member
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2010 17:43
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Hello all. Thanks again for the replies, been busy the last few months and am back to figuring out this system.
My next question is longevity for the batteries. I have seen desulfinator chargers but they all seem to run from 110 to do their thing. How can I incorporate something like this into my 12v system?
Also, would it be much simpler to just convert everything to 110 before it enters the cabin and run stuff from that rather than mess with DC? I have so much running through my mind, I do not know where to really start! Thanks!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2010 22:29
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The first thing you or anyone contemplating off grid electrical should do is as accurately as possible estimate the likely power use. Once you know that then all you can figure out the other details such as number and size of batteries, whether or not DC is practical and how much generating capacity is required.
A 12 volt DC system can work but usually is best suited to only the smallest of cabins. That's my opinion arrived at after 30 years of RV experience (basically off grid... we never used campgrounds with all the hookups) and a couple years now with a 475 sq ft off grid cabin.
When it comes to batteries, before choosing one type of battery over another I suggest reading the Battery FAQ at AZ Wind-Sun. They've been selling off grid equipment for 30+ years. For best bang-for-the-buck it's hard to beat the good old flooded lead acid battery.
For help in calculating one's power needs there is a handy calculator over here. There are many others online as well. Like most that one is oriented towards power from PV modules. However everything up the the PV module point is valid for sun, wind, hydro, whatever.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2010 23:01
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I meant to add that as a 12 volt system gets larger, as the wire lengths get longer one can get into higher losses due to wire resistance. That is the main stumbling block when considering low voltage power systems.
Also the best battery system will have the fewest number of cells and the least number of parallel battery connections. That is two 220 amp hour six volt batteries in series is better than connecting two 110 amp hour twelve volt batteries in parallel. (better for battery life). Both have the same amp-hour capacity.
And a fully charged battery will not freeze. Ours are quite happy sitting over winter with the PV charge controller keeping them up.
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michigan98gt
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2010 13:24
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Thanks for the info. It seems as though 12v would be my best best due to the small size of my cabin. I think I may have a good spot to start my planning now.
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2011 02:19
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I'm running an 85W solar panel, with a Sunforce charge controller and 2 125AH 6v golf cart batteries. Regarding conspicuity; is micro hydro noisy? (I wish I had a fast-running stream!)
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Carmichael
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2012 01:52
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I see you have the same problem as most letter are asking. I am kind of confused with this problem. I believe your car runs on 12v, it has a relay/regulator that controls the charge from your alternator to your battery so that it will not explode. You can get one from any auto wrecker or pick a part for $5, and its all prewired just take a paper with it and note which wires go where. No guess work, no worry, simple and cheap. If you go to an RV store they'll rob you silly. Just make sure you know what amps you are pushing and get one that is designed for the same output alternator, the type or make of car is not relevant.
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Icebear
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2012 02:17
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I listened to an interview from a guy here in NZ who make micro hydro systems and sells them all over the world. They have been specifically designed to be airfreighted wherever needs be and they have 60 dealers covering the entire world. Very interesting - but I don't have a stream :(
http://www.ecoinnovation.co.nz/
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TomChum
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2012 22:09 - Edited by: TomChum
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Cool. On ecoinnovation there's a stream calculator.
My stream flows 5 gal/min, at least, and drops 80 feet with a pipe length 400 feet. According to this I can get 25Watts. This is 600watt-hours in 24 hours rain or shine, but maybe it can freeze up....
Anyway contrasted to my 85W Solar, where my area gets 4-5 hours a day, (5 hrs x 85 Watts x 75% =300 watt-hours/day) on sunny days.
That's double the power. But again...... I bet it's noisy, continuous noise.....
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Icebear
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2012 03:21
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The YouTube videos certainly have noise. Many people seem to make their own by running a pump in reverse - so assume the noise is similar to running the pump normally.
Could be fine if it's insulated, or a long way away...
I wish I had a stream :)
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exsailor
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2012 11:09
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I have often wondered if you couldn't use a water ram to move water up into a tank. You could then use the fall from the tank to turn small water turbine for hydro power generation. I realize the hydro-system would empty the tank, and the ram pump couldn't keep up with the flow demand of the hydro system. It would be ineresting to run for "charging sesssions" to keep a battery bank charged. You might even be able to make the charging sessions somewhat automated dependant on the tank levels. It seems like it would be free power because the inefficient ram pump would fill your tank and gravity could retun the water through your hydo- system back into the feed stream, so you don't run foul of down stream use, like you would if you made a dam. It also woul;dn't be subject to causing a flood, becuase there would not be a damn to break. Well just some idle thoughts that I think would work.
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