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LovingTheWild
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2016 23:53
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I have 70 acres of wooded land in central NY. I want to fell some dead but not rotten trees and make a decent size trapper shack or cabin. I was thinking 12x12 or maybe a little larger. For an overnight getaway or early morning hunt. I have a nice green somewhat level and cleared piece in the middle of the land I think would be nice. I wanted to make it a log cabin from trees on the property. I don't have much experience but I am pretty savvy at building things. I was wondering if I would need posts? Or what my best alternative would be. Please any advice is appreciated.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 00:30
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Could a thick bed of crushed rock, leveled, then the cabin built on large timbers/skids? This would allow it to float, but the gravel will keep the water away and help avoid frost heave? I would do a thick bed of gravel, pack it down tight. Level the timbers on it, then build on the timbers. Lay down mesh in the floor if you insulate to keep critters out of the insulation. Lay it down first on the timbers, then build on top of it.
Or the many post, girders, deep, below front line, use big foot footers and cement.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 06:44
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Being originally from northern Illinois and dealing with the frost heave and I usually over build things. I would sink post 4', or deeper depending on the frost line in your area, in the ground and build a raised structure from that. You won't have to worry about the ground shift and doors sticking. I would dig the hole, drop in a round concrete cookie, the round stepping stones you get at home depot, set the post then backfill with pea gravel. Concrete around a wood post will cause them to rot out faster.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 08:43
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Log Cabins are heavy and require something reasonably substantial for a foundation, be it a perimeter type foundation or even a slab. Even a small 12x12 will weigh a lot more than you think.
Can you prep the land for concrete & get a concrete truck in ?
Rubble Foundation may be possible but building inspectors, codes etc factor in there...
Methods: There are many ways to build a Log Structure but two of the methods which allow you to do it "yourself" is either the Butt & Pass (ref info ):hollowtop.com/cls_html/Log_Homes_Butt_and_Pass.htm OR possibly Cordwood / Stackwall REF: http://www.inspirationgreen.com/cordwood-construction.html Cordwood is more labour intensive and drawn out (An option I considered and decided against).
If you have big enough log stock, you may be able to get a portable mill to come in and cut your wood into planks & beams and build with the material from your land. There are many of these fellows around my area and they will do it for cash, cash & % of wood cut or sometimes just for an X amount of the wood cut.
If you "Stick Build" using either with your own rough cut wood or store bought, the structure would be lighter and much easier to just have on a gravel pad sitting on skids... That would also let you move it later as well, if you want to or add-on if needed... Good simple article on Gravel-Foundation-Recommended-for-the-Storage-Sheds
ALWAYS CHECK LOCAL BUILDING PERMIT REQUIREMENTS as they (the goober mentals) may have requirements & restrictions that could affect what you can do for yourself.
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LovingTheWild
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 09:26
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Steve, By stick build you mean use processed lumber? I will do whatever is most convenient and plausible for a beginning builder. I am trying to maintain a low budget if at all possible. I am a disabled veteran and currently not working. The land is quite hilly there are logging roads so I'm not sure what kind of vehicles can make it up there. Rough and muddy.
Sparky, I considered the posts. Sonotube with regard in the middle and build on top of that. I've read quite a bit. I'm looking to do everything myself and if calculations are correct I'd need 2600 pounds of concrete. If they are correct. I could drive them to the top of the hill and wagon them down a few at a time. Granted I know this will be a lot of work I'm just looking for the most efficient and financial friendly. I appredicate the responses and answers. Well have access to a 4 wheeler hopefully soon so that and a trailer will be of some help lol.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 09:59
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By Stick Build, I'm talking about standard framing with 2x6 either 16" or 24" on centre. Notice I don't mention 2x4 which is essentially pointless if you want something that will last... The current 2x4 dimensional lumber that is available is quite crappy compared to what was available even 5 years ago... the wood is too young & soft.
Check around with the locals & find out if there is anyone around that has a portable mill that could process your logs into dimensional lumber. If you can use Rough Cut lumber from your own trees that's a big saving, especially if you can work a deal that they cut the lumber for you and take a percentage of the wood cut in lieu of payment... (watch out on Building Inspectors & their rules) as some places won't allow you to use "ungraded lumber".
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LovingTheWild
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 14:15
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I've thought about asking a logger I saw on craigslist. I really liked the post idea aside from it being quite rocky beneath from what I've seen. I have yet to find a place without rocks. Given the information what do u guys think I should best r?
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Don_P
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2016 19:54
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NY has native lumber laws, allowing you to use the wood from the land.
Dig to frost depth, install a footing (can be rocks) and build masonry walls to support the building. Sounds like you have rocks and time, been there done that, the cost of portland, sand and time and you can build a strong beautiful foundation as the wood seasons. Our stone mason stays booked, it is not a bad career.
Mitchell, "The Craft of Modular Post and Beam" is a good book for some ideas of another way.
I'm on the mailing list from the American Lumber Standards Committee. With few exceptions the wood supply is holding steady engineering wise. The SYP derate of several years ago has caused a round of retesting what is out there, I don't believe anything else has come up out of spec.
Thank you for your service.
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LovingTheWild
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2016 00:09
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I'm not really confident in the ability to figure much. It'd be too back breaking or costly. I like the idea of using stone and skids but is it wise for what I want? I can settle for building it with 2x6s.
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creeky
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2016 18:08
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If you're in the NY area. Any Amish around you? The northern part of NY has lots of 'em. Go have a look at how they build.
Lots, many, a huge number, have been built on skids. It seems you're building a low cost 12x12 hunt cabin. You plan to keep it for all eternity?
I'm all for huge expensive foundations. Okay, no I'm not. Basic foundation on skid. There was a real good cabin builder here for quite awhile. OwenChristensen. Have a look at his cabin posts.
Really. How much time money do you want to invest? NY. Tiny spot in the middle of a forest. Your place isn't blowin' in the wind.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2016 19:19
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Building on a packed gravel pad which is properly done for drainage is likely the simplest & easiest solution for a 12x12 Stick Built hunting cabin. I would suggest using three 6x6 Pressure Treated skids under the cabin... See the link I provided in my first post which is a good discussion / detail on prepping for a gravel pad.
I would suggest keeping life / build simple by sticking to 4', 8' incremental dimensions, which 12x12 fits and keeps waste minimized. A simple "Shed Roof" using 2x8's would also simplify the build... You could even set the North Wall @ 12' height and the South Wall @ 8' giving you an easy slope.
If you have enough field stone laying about, as it seems to be handy per your posts, you could always get some Gabion Baskets / Cages and use those to build rubble foundation walls & more. I've been making Gabion Pillars & Baskets using concrete reinforcement mesh and the heaps of stone I have on my property... Not hard to do but does take time & patience.
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LovingTheWild
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2016 22:22
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Awesome guys I appreciate the great info and quick responses. I like the idea of stone foundstion. Would there be any way to make the skids from trees on the property or must they be treated/aged?
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Don_P
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2016 23:00
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Do you have any naturally decay resistant species? Here it would be black locust or chestnut oak (aka sill oak).
For outbuilding pads here I've built log cabin style cribs of locust 6x6's pinned to the ground with 5/8 rebar. I lag the corners together but they could be pinned with rebar. Think of a railroad tie box larger than the building by several feet. We are blessed with rocks so I arrange a layer of healthy rocks, cover with pea gravel, another, and keep repeating. There is a good layer of just gravel at the top.
I'm not sure the reason for skids, comments? You can build a crib which is stable in both directions.
Essentially a rubble foundation with a short permanent wood foundation. At 12' you really don't need a mid support.
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