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Small Cabin Forum / General Forum / Just bought a tractor...i don't know anything about tractors!!
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WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 10:34
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So last night I purchased a 1950's Ford 800 series tractor to use at our new property. I've been looking for a few month with some help from guys at work that know their way around them. The said this one would fit my needs and the price was right. So now i'm trying to figure out what i need!

Who knows tractors here?!

I'm pretty sure its a 860 model since the PTO is lever activated which i think means it's called a "live" PTO. The 850 model was a "transmission PTO" which i don't think i what i have. Doesn't help i forgot to take a picture of model number before i left my land last night when i dropped it off after picking it up.

The power steering isn't working, so i'm trying to find a replacement pump but i can't seem to find one that matches my picture below. Any ideas?

Lastly, i want to replace the fluids. I can't seem to find a clear and concise place on what fluids i should use, capacities, etc. Any help here?!

Appreciate any help i can get!!







gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 10:48
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Looks like you will be needing to join another forum! Im sure there is one for vintage Fords

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 11:04
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https://itstillruns.com/ford-model-800-tractor-specs-7591521.html

mj1angier
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 11:16
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Spend a few days on this site:
https://www.tractorbynet.com/

DaveBell
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 11:22
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Are you sure it's the pump and not the cylinder or filter?

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 12:19
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Nice old girl..I have a 1957 ford 851 with a loader and no power steering.

That pump looks to be aftermarket. There where companies that made them as a kit.
As for fluids
Rear end and trans share the same fluid I believe and 032 hydraulic or universal tractor fluid should be just fine. 10w30 is fine for motor oil also. Just get the tractor supply stuff. These old fords are extremely un picky on fluid types.

My engine oil is down to the point that I add only, has a rear main seal leak. The trans froze 2 winters ago due to water getting by the shifter. 3pt still would rise fine when thawed. Mine has very badly dry rotted tires and I have to hold it in reverse. The parts alone to fix those two things are 3/4 the price to just but another used one. So mine is one flat rear tire away from the scrap yard but runs, drives and it's also nice having a machine that I can leave pallet forks on.

I also have a kubota b8200 4x4 diesel with a loader.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 20:54
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Lol, my 1959 Massey (same as Ford) has enough bailing wire, duct tape and JB Weld to make Red Green blush. A few years ago the rod knock got bad enough that I pulled the oil pan. Spun bearing, and the rod journal was .006" out of round. To pull the crank means busting the hole tractor apart. No way that was going to happen so I just sanded it smooth and stuck a new bearing in. Been going several years now. I go easy on it and don't rev it too high.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 24 Apr 2021 22:06
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Old tractors can be nifty but sure can be moneypits.

You will need to be able to do all your own maintenance and repairs, IMO, for this to make any sense.

I have a Ford 9N but only because it has been in the family since 1939, one of the first sold in NM.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 25 Apr 2021 08:05
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Quoting: paulz
ol, my 1959 Massey (same as Ford) has enough bailing wire, duct tape and JB Weld to make Red Green blush. A few years ago the rod knock got bad enough that I pulled the oil pan. Spun bearing, and the rod journal was .006" out of round. To pull the crank means busting the hole tractor apart. No way that was going to happen so I just sanded it smooth and stuck a new bearing in. Been going several years now. I go easy on it and don't rev it too high

When mine gets run hot enough for long enough I can also hear a rod knock. It would be a money pit if i cared to fix it but since i dont it isnt. Lol

I actualy broke the transmission output shaft years ago. It was a $90 part. Becids that it's been batteries and an alternator.

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 25 Apr 2021 13:48
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At some point, maybe even now, they are worth more in parts than complete and running. And at some point, coming soon, the people who are interested in and willing to do the work will diminish, just like with older vintage cars, and the bottom will fall out of the market.
So, dont get too heavily 'invested' and you will be ok.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 25 Apr 2021 14:34
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Quoting: Brettny
I actualy broke the transmission output shaft years ago. It was a $90 part. Becids that it's been batteries and an alternator.



Mine gets stuck in first or reverse if I don't press the shift lever down while shifting. I keep a long screwdriver on board, remove the filler plug, stick it down in there move the slider back under the shifter fork. I don't make that mistake often anymore after going through the process a couple hundred times.

Charging system quit long ago, I just run it total loss, the battery tray is right on top out in the open.

But the loader and drag box still work so it gets a fair bit of use. I'll miss the old thing when it's finally had enough.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 25 Apr 2021 20:09
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Mine has been converted to 12v via a 1980 Camaro alternator that has a lifetime warranty. I use the warrenty about every 2yrs. The battery also dies if I leave it connected.

Hey Will if your going to be grading at all I suggest a box blade. Rear blades are really only good for digging a road side ditch, crowning a road and moving snow.
A box blade how ever are good for ripping up ground, moving material to another spot and smoothing out a road. Because they can pickup, keep and move material you can do grading work with them.

I also suggest at least 1 suit case weight that you can put on an attachment. You wouldnt believe the difference a 100lb weight makes.

1tentman
Member
# Posted: 25 Apr 2021 22:16
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Willie sweet little tractor, if you need any info on it I can help . I made a living on working on tractors for 25 years, cut my teeth on small Fords. We had a 871, 861 and a prior model 4000. Dad farmed 350 acres of row crop with those 3 tractors. The power steering is aftermarket, don't get in a hurry to replace parts it could just need actuator assembly adjusted. If you can get more pics of control valve on steering that would help. If it is a true 860 it will have a 5 speed transmission and a double clutch, you get the live pto off the double clutch.
Brettny you say your alternator draws your battery down you need to put a switch in the wire that energizes your alternator. I can explain that one later if you need .

WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 26 Apr 2021 08:24
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Quoting: gcrank1
Looks like you will be needing to join another forum!

I have and they are no where near as good as here

As far the fluids go, let me know if these will work:
Tranny and rear end fluid.
Hydraulic fluid.
The manual i found online specs Mild Extreme SAE 80 for the rear end and tranny. It then specs M-4684-A for the hydraulics and a SAE 20 for the engine.

Regarding the PTO...i'm still confused what the difference is between the transmission PTO and a live PTO. Apparently i need someone to get out the fat crayons and really dumb it down for me!!

As for the power steering, a few others have said the resevoir looks low in my picture. They said it could be air bound and something about a control valve. It's all over my head as i don't know what i'm looking at.

1tentman
Member
# Posted: 26 Apr 2021 11:48
Reply 


The universal hydraulic fluid will work fine in transmission and rear end. I would suggest 15w40 for the engine.
Regarding the PTO, transmission driven pto is found on the 840 and 850 series, they have a single plate clutch. The pto is driven off the output shaft of transmission. When you push the clutch down the tractor and pto both stop. The 860 series has a double clutch assembly. When you push the clutch half way down the tractor stops moving, push the clutch all the way down then the pto stops. This tractor does have a 5 speed transmission right? One thing to check is put it under a load in 3rd gear,as these tractor get old 3rd gear is the most used and they get wore they have a tendency to jump out of gear. Can you get more pics of the steering assembly . From what i can see of the pictures this tractor has a vane style hydraulic pump, which is alright just very expensive to fix. The piston style pump is the most preferred. One good thing about the small Fords is parts are readily available. One other upgrade you might consider is for $35-$40 you can install electronic ignition in the distributor and it makes them start so much easier.Have fun and enjoy.

WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 26 Apr 2021 12:18
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Quoting: 1tentman
I would suggest 15w40 for the engine.
I suspect there's a "tractor" grade oil i should use?

Quoting: 1tentman
This tractor does have a 5 speed transmission right?
Yes. I believe it's an 850 or 860. I've only driven it around in 1st gear so far. I didn't get to spend much time with it yet so hopefully ill get back to my land soon to play around with it! I did notice it tended to squeal a bit when i increased the throttle...not sure if the belt is old/worn or where it was coming from yet.
The clutch pedal only sits about 6-8" off the floor board. But i did read that the pedal can be adjusted?

Quoting: 1tentman
Can you get more pics of the steering assembly .
Will do on next trip up.

Quoting: 1tentman
you can install electronic ignition
Right now it has the key and push button start on the floor. She fired right up every time so far so i'm not sure i want to mess with that right now.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 26 Apr 2021 14:03
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My machine pops out of reverse and I even took it appart to try and shim the gear/fork a bit. The gear is totally worn, fork worn, shaft and detent worn. Last I checked the reverse parts arnt available.

Mine still has the points ignition. I replaced them once about 7yrs ago and haven't touched them since. It will start in -5f and 95*f.

paulz
Member
# Posted: 26 Apr 2021 16:51
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I put a Pertronix electronic ignition kit in mine. Points kept corroding in my rain forest.

Both my Masseys are about the same size, one being gas, the other diesel. The diesel sips fuel, the gas gulps it at a ferocious rate. Maybe it's just mine. The carb looks like it was carved out of stove by cavemen.

WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 08:27
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1. Shouldn't there be some sort of cap or something on the end of these cylinders? Right now it's about a 1" deep recess down in there until you hit what looks like a snap ring and then the seal.

2. If there is supposed to be something there, where do i go about getting 2 of them...and what exactly do i call them so i can search for them properly?

2. Besides ignoring the leak, is there a fix that i can do? I'm mechanically inclined and a DIY'er so as long as i have a diagram, drawing or something to go by along with some direction of what to do i can probably figure it out.





Brettny
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 09:16
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Just clean that out and get the dirt away from the seal along with getting any rust off the cylinder. Seaps on hyd cylinders even 30yrs newer than those is normal. I wouldnt worry about a few drops when parked.

WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 10:41
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Quoting: 1tentman
The universal hydraulic fluid will work fine in transmission and rear end.


So i seriously can use this stuff for the tranny, rear diff and the hydraulics?

I know it was 1955 and technology has come a long ways since then, but it blows my mind i can use 1 fluid for 3 different areas/functions!

@1tentman...what fluid should i use for the power steering in case i want to top it off to see if that's the issue?

pabear89
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 11:46
Reply 


There should be a wiper ring at the end of the cyl.
it wipes the ram as is travels in and out.
Hydo fluid will work in steering system.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 13:52
Reply 


Quoting: WILL1E
So i seriously can use this stuff for the tranny, rear diff and the hydraulics?

I know it was 1955 and technology has come a long ways since then, but it blows my mind i can use 1 fluid for 3 different areas/functions!

@1tentman...what fluid should i use for the power steering in case i want to top it off to see if that's the issue?

Some tractors use the trans and rear diff for the hyd tank. Cant remember at the moment if this one does.

Popeye
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 15:46
Reply 


My 1953 Jubilee has two fill locations. One is for the transmission and hydraulic reservoir the other is for the rear end. I use universal tractor fluid in both locations.

1tentman
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 21:39
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Willie put the hydraulic fluid in the steering I use that in mine no problem. The wiper ring on the cylinders is no big deal just run it the way it is. Your rams look a little pitted so their isn't much you can do for that, just add more fluid as you go. You ask about the engine oil I use Shell Rotella-T 15w-40 in everything I have .If you add oil to the steering unit and it still will not work get me some pics of the steering column and the steering cylinders I think we can make this work for you.Waiting to hear from you.

1tentman
Member
# Posted: 27 Apr 2021 21:47
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Willie the newer bigger tractors have 1 reservoir trans , hyd, rear end all one unit. The new oils are so much better than what we had back when these tractors came out. They recommend 90 weight back then, but when it got cold out the hyd. wouldn't work worth a darn. The new oils are awesome so don't be afraid to use them.

WILL1E
Moderator
# Posted: 28 Apr 2021 07:47
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Got it...so the Tractor Supply Hydralulic fluid for everything but the engine!

When i go up next time i'll get a ton of pictures to hopefully take out any guessing game going forward!

Aklogcabin
Member
# Posted: 29 Apr 2021 08:25 - Edited by: Aklogcabin
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[b][/b]O
Hello, I'm not too sure about the hydrologic fluid for the rear end n tyranny. Hydrologic oil is usually 10w or so pretty light. That tyranny is not a hydrologic type or semi automatic. Just gears, in cold climate 30w hot temps 90w. Your power steering is a hydronic pump. Tyranny fluid can be used here also.
On the pitted hydrologic rod on your bucket lift arm I would suggest that you use a bit of brake clean n clean them. And put some liquid metal in the pits. A rubber spatchula works nice for applying.
If you remove the snap ring that holds the rod, piston you can replace the scraper seal and internal seals. Lots of good old tractor places . Steiner is a good one. Seals are usually $50 or so.
I've got a 1941 Farmall H with a narrow front end with a Stanhoist front bucket. Bought her for $1,200 bucks cost $800 bucks for new rear tires, tubes n boots. Installed. Runs excellent. I'd guess the bucket on yours to be a stanhoist brand. My beautiful wife wants to restore her with our grandson. All that will take is a steam wash some Farmall red paint and a decal kit. 300 bucks or so. She'll look new again. It's a family heirloom so it will stay in the family n worth cleaning up. And fun too.
I've also got a 1959 Case 420 rubber tired backhoe. Bought her for $4,300 bucks 8 years ago. Had to buy a new generator/ alternator for $75 bucks or so. Runs great.
I blew a seal on my plow truck tyranny. 1976 F-250. So I had our daughter weld 2 tabs in the back of the front bucket of the Case backhoe to match the plow hook ups n put my western snow plow in the bucket. Then used a chain n ratchet binder to hold it down. I may put a control box on it to angle the blade . I've got several blades, the one I'm using for the backhoe has 16" wings so it pushes straight good.
On these smaller tractors rear chains make a huge difference. Or else you can have them filled with a liquid to give more traction. I'm always on gravel or snow so chains, they keep the mud from balling up the tires. They don't need to be the aggressive type with growsers just plain chain cross links.
On oils the book probably says 30 wt for the motor. And 90 in tyranny, rear axle. There's lots of good ol tractor forums out there with folks who use them every day. Especially ol Ford Ns.
So I've got less than $5800 bucks in these 2 ol tired irons.
My neighbor bought a smaller size 4x4 tractor with a backhoe. Blue one. Nice little tractor, only cost $20 thousand bucks or so. But my ol 59 will dig deeper, faster n push way more with it's weight.
I also like tinkering on them with the kids, grandkids.

Just my experiences, good luck.

1tentman
Member
# Posted: 29 Apr 2021 10:48
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One more thing I forgot to mention. The loader probably has a front mount hydraulic pump , this pump will be mount on the loader frame right in front of the grill. The drive shaft for it goes thru the grill and fastens to the hub on the front of the crankshaft. With this set up the hydraulic reservoir for the loader is the tube frame of the loader.Just another place to check fluids, regular hydraulic fluid will work fine.

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