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lawnjocky
Member
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2021 13:09
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I haven't posted in quite a while but I just got back from my off the grid place in New Mexico and I had some generator issues (again).
I have a cheap Champion 4000 watt generator that I have been using for 7 or 8 years. Usually it is great but if I am not careful I have the dreaded ethanol problems. I try to use non ethanol fuel but sometimes I can't get it. When I shut down the generator I always shut the fuel off and let it run dry. If I have been away for a while I drain the tank before starting and refill it with fresh fuel.
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lawnjocky
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2021 13:17
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I accidently posted that before it was ready. So I stored the generator in a shipping container for several months and I suspect it got hot in there and the fuel bled through the fuel valve and into the carb where it did its nasty business.
After doing all the normal stuff it almost started and then the pull cord broke. %^*$#@
So I brought it home to service it. I am going to install a "T" in the fuel line with 2 valves so it will really shut off and I can drain bad fuel completely with less work. I am going to replace the cord and I am wondering if any of you have found kevlar or similar material ropes that last longer.
What else are you doing to avoid generator issues when it is stored for months at a time?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2021 14:47
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I have to store my small engine powered stuff and 3 motorcycles for 5-6 mo./yr. Been doing this for decades, Im 68.
Some of my stuff gets run fairly often 'in season', others may or may not.....
The stuff that get run regularly I use the eth-blend in season, Im just burning it up anyway (see no value in running prem all the time in those) like the lawn mower and the bikes (that I kinda rotate thru). The others, like the chipper or pressure washer I have to plan for use and try to run empty at the tail end. A good plan that doesnt always work out, like when I blew out my rt knee a couple years ago. That entirely took my focus off my engine driven stuff.....
But usually it works out.
At the fall prep for winter I get my big jug filled with non-eth pump premium, add the 'dbl-dose' of Sta-Bil for the quantity and use it for the last couple of run sessions. The sometimes to rarely run stuff gets 'some' in the tank then run dry.
I put em away into non-heated storage. In the spring I run em all. They start and run fine, even 6mo. on, IF I dont mess up and leave eth-blend in!
Works for me, ymmv.
Btw, even if you run something 'dry', drain the float bowl if you have a drain there.
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lawnjocky
Member
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2021 17:36
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Thank you. I think part of the problem is that I stored the generator in a shipping container that gets hot inside when it is warm outside. I think the tank valve bleed through resulting in ethanol crap in the carb. Running it dry apparently isn't enough as you stated. Maybe I should install a valve on the float bowl drain. That way I can leave it open draining into a jug when I store it and not risk loosing the plug.
I am also thinking about buying a second generator to keep on site dry so that if I have a problem I can fill it up and know it is ready to go.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2021 18:12 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Run alcohol free fuel in all your power equipment, no exceptions, go here to find it pure-gas.org or a marina or airport also sells alkie free fuel. Then treat the fuel with stabil fuel stabilizer.
Running an engine till it stalls does not mean the carb is empty, means its only about part way empty, now with the air space in there and alkie fuel, you will get corrosion. Its best to keep carb either all the way full or all the way empty. Never use alcohol fuel unless you are running it on a weekly basis.
The alkie fuel attracts moisture, sets on bottom of carb bowl. If your lucky, you can drain it out, better yet, pull bowl off and clean it. Its where all the water will get. You have 2 jets that set submerged, a pilot circuit (idle or slow speed) and a main or high speed. High speed enters right in the restriction (venturi) while the low speed enters in front of the throttle blade on the engine side.
Those small jets get plugged with corrosion or if there is water in there, water wont pass and it just stays in there and plugs the jets up. Pop it off, wash with carb or brake cleaner and hope jest are clear.
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lawnjocky
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2021 18:57
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That is what I try to do but I screw up more than I would like to admit. They do sell real gas in the nearest town but the station is often not open. I usually bring 10 gallons home with me. I have a 1972 BSA 500MX and it is next to impossible to start with gas station fuel. However it fires right up first or second kick with non ethanol fuel. I have no idea why it works but it does.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 06:05
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Keeping any piece of equipment in a un vented container in the south west is like keeping it in a oven. Even in the northeast you can have issues with a invented container.
As so the rope 7-8yrs at an offgrid place dosnt sound to bad. Was it frayed before it broke? Typicaly they fray right by the pull handle. When I see this starting il cut a few inches off.
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lawnjocky
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 08:50
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Storing it in the container was a mistake, I thought it would be alright since the average summer high is only 85 there. The rope broke a couple feet down from the pull.
Thanks
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 09:30 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: lawnjocky 1972 BSA 500MX
A Victor!!
I have a '68 and my brother a '71 B50SS.
We love big thumpers. We use avgas 100LL
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lawnjocky
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 10:26
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I was going to go with avgas but when I tried ethanol free and it worked so well I figured why bother.
There is nothing like a thumper. I had wanted one since I was 10 or 11. I was riding my minibike in Pt Richmond back when riding was still allowed there. There were 2 guys riding thumpers, one was called Biscuits. I never got his real name. The other guy was Dick Mann. I had no idea who he was but I was sure impressed with the bikes and the riding. They are amazing machines but a bit surly at times, just like the little dog sitting next to me.
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 10:46
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Hello lawn. I'm not trying to rub any salt into any wounds. But running the premium gasoline full time may help. I also have a bunch of small engines around so I've been into lots of carburetors.
I use heet, in the red container, for absorbing moisture. Maybe add a bit to your generator gas when you leave. Along with Sat-bil. For stabilizing your gasoline and keeping it from turning to what is called varnish.
So basically run the red heet fuel moisture throughout the season, add a couple ounces every other gas fill up. Add the sta bil towards the end of the seasonin the last tank to stabilize through the off season.
I also like to fog some engines like in our snogos. Its in a spray can. Add it into the cylinder when you put it up for the year to protect it n the rings from getting any rust inside.
Good luck n welcome back
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 11:30 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: lawnjocky There is nothing like a thumper.
I bought my Victor brand new in '68. I couldn't find one at a NM dealer so got one shipped from a dealer in CA in the wooden factory crate. It sat in a dusty corner of the barn from about 1977 until 2010.
Between my brother and I, we have several old thumpers. Dick passed away in '21.
We use the avgas as we have it on hand for the Cub.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 13:16 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Thumpers, Yeah!
I started with big v-twins in '68, old, beat bikes.
Got my first thumper in 1978 when my old riding buddy told me I Had To Have One and sold me his '76 Yam Xt500 dirt cheap (but not dirt beat, street use only). He had the classic Brit thumpers post WWII so just had to buy the XT when it came out.
We both went on from there to the SR500s/550/600, Honda FT500s, etc.
I had 3 SRs, still have one, an '81 that has been a 'work in progress' since 83ish; old-school Brit style cafe racer. LOTs of kewl stuff end to end. I had it do the ton (gps verified) with 200# of me on some years ago.
And my gentleman's thumper is a 2009 Suz TU250X.
Been riding over half a century; what a trip!
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lawnjocky
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 13:32
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Nice photo. It looks like next to Buggsy is Gene Romero and Mert Lawwill. Not sure who Number 7 was. Those were amazing times for motorcycling.
Was your thumper the legendary one that sat in someone's living room unstarted for decades? I believe that bike was in New Mexico.
Mine is in the photo below. I purchased it from a former professional flat track racer who built race bikes for pros. Somebody through a lot of money into it with Cerriani forks, Works Perfomance shocks, electronic ignition and on and on. I have no idea what was done inside the engine but the thing has some get up and go. Way more than my 500 twin Triumph flat tracker from back in my misguided youth. Or perhaps I am just getting older. I wouldn't be ssurpised if it has a big bore kit in it. It will climb trees idling.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 17:14 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Hey, I had a few thumpers. LOL
Been riding since a teenager, had a junior motocross team, for 8 years. we lived breathed and ate motorcross, if we wasnt racing, we was practicing. All done, do have the XT250 for playing at cabin abd the Mule for work, which is a thumper.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 17:17
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Plenty of 2 stinkers too.
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ICC
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 18:36
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Quoting: lawnjocky Was your thumper the legendary one that sat in someone's living room unstarted for decades? I believe that bike was in New Mexico.
No it sat in the barn, sometimes hidden behind baled alfalfa, sometimes under fallen over bales. It did survive though and was a resurrection project with me and a grandson. There is something about the way a thumper sounds that I love. Plus the "just off idle" torque; as you say it'll climb a wall.
I found dirt track racing a blast to watch, like motocross but my real love was/is Observed Trials. I had a couple of Bultaco's I had great fun with. A 250 and a 350. Have you seen Dougie Lampkin? His father was a trials champion of my generation. The son is amazing. Of course, the bikes are a lot different today; better suited for what they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTuTcwPyX3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8NAmXUdyBM
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 18:46 - Edited by: travellerw
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I have owned and operated a generator/small engine business with my father for the last 12 years (well he operated while I lived abroad for 5 years). We have seen 1000s (maybe even 10,000) gummed up carbs. The only way to %100 prevent it, is to drain the carb bowl completely and prevent any fuel from entering while in storage. Unfortunately not every carb bowl has a drain though.
Up here, non-ethanol fuel is simply not available (unless you want to buy insanely priced "Tru-Fuel"). So everyone has a "secret" on how to prevent carb gum-up. However, my experience is none of the chemicals (Stabil, Heat, XM5, ect, ect) really work. Some work a little better than others (Seafoam is pretty good), but they all fail at some point turning the fuel to varnish (in super bad cases it looks like the carb is filled with sawdust or sand). I have seen some crazy setups with 3 way valves for introducing products directly to the carb.
So that is my advice. Ensure the carb is either drained, or come up with a system to introduce something like "Tru-Fuel" right before storage, then run the carb dry. Keep it stored in a dry, cool place.
As to pull ropes. You can try a Spectra rope (order online or get from a marine shop). However, be prepared to break something else as the rope is supposed to be the weak spot (like a shear bolt). Ropes break most often from chafe. Usually there is a spot in the pull system where the rope chafes while the unit is running, putting a weak spot on the rope. Look for that spot and make sure the materials there are smooth and not adding excess wear to the rope.
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lawnjocky
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 18:51
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Great info on the generator issues.
In regards to trials, those videos remind me of Danny Daycare but motorized.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj0CmnxuTaQ
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 19:05
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Ive thought about popping the fuel line and using a diy gravity bottle to fill the float bowl with the Expensive Stuff, running a just bit to really get it 'through the carb', shutting down and leave as it.
Next carb I have to pull off I will remember I said this....
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 20:57 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Few more thumpers of mine and a 2 stinker
The trail 90 was a genuine USFS issued unit when new, I fully restored it to perfect and sold it. Got and sold it before I took on the cabin and the USFS theme.
I also had a 1973 just as mint, in Mars Orange. They were only orange in 73 and 74 and they were yellow in 68 and 78. All the rest were alwasy red. The low/high range showed up in 66, then the 110 showed up in 1980 and had no hi low range, they must of realized it was a mistake and after that, the high low range came back in 81. Prior to 66, you have to switch rear sprocket and add a chain link section.
Last 110 in the US I think was 84 or 86??? They did bring them back, as 125's a year ago. Had a 2002 Yamaha TTR 125L
Few missing is a utility quad (Suzuki thumper) and a Kawasaki KLX110 play bike, a Yamaha WR426F and when the 2008 XT250 goes away (be a bit yet) then I will be done with motorcycles. I have more then gotten it out of my system. But will maintain my motorcycle endorsement. I have had that since 1977
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grandson season finals (50 and 65 classes)
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2021 21:40
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 nice series of bikes.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 08:18
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Quoting: travellerw However, my experience is none of the chemicals (Stabil, Heat, XM5, ect, ect) really work.
OK, there is a fogging kit, its a spray and yuo turn fuel off to your power equipment and then via the carb vent, inject this, it foams up, coats the inside, keeps it clear. Many mfg has this stuff, Stabil, CRC, Yamalube, Quicksilver, Mercury Marine, OMC, Johnson/Evinrude etc. Just do an amazon search for fogging oil. Cost around 12 to 20 bucks. Stabil is the lowest priced. Get the one with the little straw for injecting into carb vent hoses.
Thanks ICC, I was super meticulous on all my bikes (and everything really) and they looked new each time we showed up to a track. Same went for my non race bikes.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 09:32
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Quoting: lawnjocky There were 2 guys riding thumpers, one was called Biscuits. I never got his real name. The other guy was Dick Mann.
Bill Verbiscio, long time BSA dealer in San Rafael. Loud and often contentious. Old story about Mann kicking him out of the truck on a road trip. Both he and Mann's Celebration of Life were held at the Richmond Rambler's clubhouse, which is still open.
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jhp
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 10:00
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I have never understood keeping gas tanks full, even with fuel stabilizer. I do run stabilizer in my fuel all year long but I never store them that way.
Drain the tank with a siphon, or pull the fuel line, leave just enough to fire it up and run it dry for a few minutes. Try and restart it a few times to make sure it's dry.
Remove the spark plug and put a shot of oil down the cylinder and pull it over a few times to move the piston up and down.
Replace the spark plug if its been a few years. Drain the oil and replace first thing next season. Leave the spark plug boot off just in case you forget to check the oil first thing next season.
Been doing it this way since I was taught. Never had to clean a carb on anything I didn't buy from someone else who didn't maintain it first LOL.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 11:31
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Quoting: jhp I have never understood keeping gas tanks full,
There are 2 ways to store. Full of non ethanol stabilized fuel or empty
It really just depends on what is most convenient. I do either depending on how big the tank is, how much fuel is remaining, how old the fuel is, and when I’m going to need it again.
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 12:42
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I think the biggest mistake people make is when they buy fuel, ethanol or not, they put it in a bulk container (like 5 gallon or more) and leave it. They might use
some of it, then wait and use a little more for the lawnmower or weed eater or whatever. My opinion is
to fill the empty container, and then right away add fuel stabilizer. That way, it's always ready for storage, either in the engine of the apparatus or in the storage container. I never do anything with what I have to
store it, since it's always with fuel that has stabilizer in it. It's the simplest thing I've come up with and has proven to work.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 13:47
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Quoting: Tim_Ohio My opinion is to fill the empty container, and then right away add fuel stabilizer. That way, it's always ready for storage, either in the engine of the apparatus or in the storage container. I never do anything with what I have to store it, since it's always with fuel that has stabilizer in it. It's the simplest thing I've come up with and has proven to work.
We put fuel stabilizer in all the gasoline we buy. Every unit we sell is test run and sometimes the tech forgets to drain the carb. We have units that will sit on display at a dealer (usually indoors) for a year or so. It never fails, if that happens we are doing a carb clean as it will be gummed after sitting indoors on a shelf for that length of time. Doesn't matter how much stabilizer we used.
The US military did studies and concluded that gasoline (even with Ethanol) will last years in a sealed vessel. No stabilizer required.
Fuel oxidizes when its exposed to oxygen and moisture. Ethanol exacerbates that problem as it pulls the moisture from the air since its hydrophilic. Fuel tanks and carburettors are open to the atmosphere and thus moisture and oxygen react with the fuel and cause gumming. As with any chemical reaction, heat speeds up the process.
Fuel stabilizers are mostly just petroleum distillates (essentially more refined gasoline). They don't stop the oxidization, they just "dilute" it essentially. They basically just extend the time the gum takes to plug up the carb, but the gum is still formed.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 15:03
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Quoting: FishHog There are 2 ways to store. Full of non ethanol stabilized fuel or empty
Bingo. Air space means moisture. Worse on a metal tank. Also areas with higher humidity.
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 15:55
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A good study on fuel stabilizers or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWL7p0Pnb8Y
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