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Monte
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2012 22:59
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To escape the ridiculous high costs the electric company wanted to charge us for ONE pole, plus the cost of us buying and putting together the box (another $1000 on top of $6000)....we bought an 8000/6500 Honda generator for $2000. We've already started using it to fill the water storage tank just constructed, and I planned to hook the generator power to the cabin tomorrow.
But here's the surprise wrench in the works: The electric company sent an email today, now offering to do the electricity for 40% less.
As I think about it, the cost of the generator makes up around 3/4th of the amount they took off i.e. if we went with the electricity at their lower rate, we've already brought the cost back towards what we would have originally paid because of the purchase of this this generator. That's not a positive in my book to go with electricity.
And, I figure that running everything with the generator will be far cheaper than paying a monthly electrical bill. i.e. we'll just be paying for gas.
But I wonder: what will it be like to have a generator running everything when the hot summer comes back and we have to run an AC to survive? That will be on top of the small floor refrigerator we have.
Am I looking at this right? Are there positives or negatives I'm not seeing?
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groingo
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2012 23:50 - Edited by: groingo
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Just remember, your power bills will always keep going up but so will your fuel costs and maintenance of your system.
A generator will always be a band aid till you come up with something better and more cost effective.
Your best solution is to find any and all ways to eliminate electricity altogether unless you can make another method work like solar or water.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 15 Nov 2012 23:59 - Edited by: MtnDon
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A few negatives about generators for us: from my point of view.
IMO, generators are mostly best used as emergency power sources.
Noise from the non inverter type of generator. Most I've heard are too noisy for my likes.
If there are no batteries and an inverter then every time electricity is needed the generator must run.
Going away and leaving the cabin / home vacant for a few days would seem to be impossible if there were refrigerators and/or freezers involved, unless they were non electric.
Liquid fueled generators require handling of liquid fuels. Smelly. A bother. Some danger involved in handling and storage.
Generator engines require maintenance and service. They are not 100% reliable. What is your plan when something breaks and the part is not readily available (available that same day.) But then some utility companies are not very reliable either.
The big disadvantage of the electric grid is, IMO, the outages that frequently happen in some places when storms pass through. A generator on hand could be very handy if grid connected. Then the problem is keeping fresh fuel on hand and running it on a schedule to prevent problems that usually develop with liquid fuel generators after they sit totally unused for a time.
Propane fueled generators do not have the liquid fuel issues, though the output is less on propane and propane is also not a cheap fuel. Just handy.
The only generator based off grid system I have seen and liked was based on a Generac propane fueled unit, one of their quiet units. The generator charges a 48 volt battery bank. It has a Magnum 249 VAC inverter that runs the well pump. The generator auto starts when the voltage drops to a programmed point. I think he has a 500 gallon propane tank. It works well; the generator is quite quiet.
Generac Off Grid rated unit 3 year warranty. About $4K The engine runs at 2600 rpm's which helps it be quiet. American design and manufacture
His plan is to add some PV modules in the future to cut down on the amount of time the generator has to run. The goal is to more or less just have the generator start up once in a while to pump water.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2012 06:32
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Generators are loud, even the 'quiet' ones.
Generators run out of gas unless you fill it riiiiight before you go to bed (we live in Texas so need cooling some nights.. ok, want, not need)
Generators keep you awake
Generators eat up over $100 worth of gas on a 3-day weekend, if used continuously.
We paid about $26,000 to hook up electricity. We have run on a generator for over a year...almost 2 years. We will spend 1/4 of the cost for the electricity costs per month vs generator.
Nothing sucks more than waking up and having to fire up the generator if you want heat or a light.
Can we do it all without a generator? you bet.. we can have a wood-burning stove, we can use propane, we have lots of options, but I am just comparing the two.
Electrical lines are crazy expensive.. but I think well worth it.
Sell the generator and hook up electrical lines,.
we get to the ranch about 11pm on most Fridays and we flip a switch (or will in about 2 weeks.. heh) and we have light.
You cannot get that with a generator and you WILL eventually have to replace that at your cost, not the electric company's.
R
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2012 07:58
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If I could get electricity at my cabin for ~$4K I would do it in a heartbeat. The reasons have been detailed well above, but it really boils down to the fact you just can't beat the convenience and capability it provides. And having electricity actually raises the value of property- a generator not so much. Even though I'm a huge Honda generator fan, I would sell it and hook the place to the grid.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2012 08:09
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We have a generator for back up and in the past 5 years we have had major power outages...4 -7 Days. Unless I had something to prove I wouldn't live by power from a generator.
- noisey
- always on my mind
- can't sleep well
- gas; money, storage, danger
- power isn't as clean
- can't run as much at one time
- only I can make it work comfortably
- worry more; theft, fire, clean air, equipment
Both generator and electric grid are both tied to resources you can't control so neither one gives you freedom from the "man".
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groingo
Member
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2012 11:21
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Do you have any land owners in your area that may need some power and might be willing to share the cost?
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bobbotron
Member
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2012 11:47
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We're getting electricity hooked up to our place... it's cool to be rustic, but it'll be nice to not be running a ton of candles to light the place, or constantly running the generator, which is a bit loud and obnoxious, and always running out of gas at the wrong time. That said, it'll be great to have the generator around for power outages.
Like TheCabinCalls said, unless you buy an inverter generator, the power will be dirty from them, we've had some issues with it, I'd never run a PC or other electronics off of the generator.
Also, the darn things are pretty maintenance hungry compared to a wired connection, darn carbs are always getting gummed up, oil to change, etc. :P
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rayyy
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2012 08:15
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I have been pretty happy with the Honda 2000 watt.The down side is the recoil rope is starting to fray a little and Iv'e run out of gas a couple of times.I realize the cost of the generator and the gasoline is probably more expensive than to buy grid electricity but I don't have that option.If Honda could redesign this genny with a 5 gallon gas tank with a fuel level guage,a remote,electric start set up and maybe a quieter muffler system,that would be awesome.
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Cooks Dock
Member
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2012 08:25
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You can put a decent solar systems in for not much more than buying and using a genny for one year would cost..
I use the genny for power tools and that's about it. Battery banks and or propane for everything else.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 23 Nov 2012 09:11
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Quoting: rayyy If Honda could redesign this genny with a 5 gallon gas tank
They do have a remote fuel tank set up. Requires a special gas cap with a hose fitting. You set up remote tank, it runs into the little gennie via a hose hooked to the gas cap. So I assuem it has to be slightly elevated over the gennie. Now remote start, I have it on my large Honda EU6500is, but I know Yamaha's 3000 watt'r does have remote start. There is also aftermarket kits you can buy that work like wireless remote car starters too. Of course, it only works on electric start models.
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groingo
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# Posted: 23 Nov 2012 11:59 - Edited by: groingo
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Quoting: rayyy If Honda could redesign this genny with a 5 gallon gas tank with a fuel level guage,a remote,electric start set up and maybe a quieter muffler system,that would be awesome.
I agree, Wisesales.com has the 6 gallon fuel tanks (no gauge....use a stick)for the 2000 but an electric start with remote would really complete the package to be sure.
Also, when I was using the 2000 it was very quiet but putting it on a simple 1 inch thick styrofoam pad really helped isolate and eliminate noise from vibration.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 23 Nov 2012 17:36
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I know but it would be awesome to fire it up and shut it off all from inside the cabin.5 gallons of gas would probably last me a week and with a clearly marked sight guage I could fuel it up when it needs it.And if they can make automobile exhaust systems so quiet,you can,t even tell if the engine is running,you think the could muffler down these little engines to be super quiet.Right now I run my genny much more than I ever thought I would.6 to 12 hours a day.All the while charging my battery bank as well as running my tv or computer or sterio.Microwave,vaccuum cleaner,toaster.I still working on LED lighting to replace the CFL 12 volt light bulbs.A 60 watt incandesant =a 13 watt CFL =a 5 watt LED.That's crazy.I hope to go eventually go all LED.
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