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optimistic
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2013 17:54
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I made my plumbing in such a way so I open a valve and it drains.... I still didn't use this plumbing (kitchen and bath are not installed yet) but with a couple of experiments I don't think it clears my system all that well... I was thinking to use a pump to suck out the remaining water.
Any thoughts on what pump to use? it needs to have the ability to run dry and have a hose/pipe inlet....
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2013 18:35
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Not a pump to suck water but a pump to blow compressed air. We use a fitting I made with a tire valve stem stuck thru a hole drilled in a PVC plumbing cap. I disconnect the flex hose that feeds the Shurflo pump. Remove the pump and turn it on a few seconds and shake. Turn pump off. Screw the fitting into the end of the hose that was connected to the pump outlet. Pump air in and starting at the furthest faucet open taps one at a time to blow out the water. I go around twice doing that.
Special attention may be needed with on-demand tankless water heaters as they all do not blow out nicely. Check the manual for the one you have. We have a set of bypass valves installed at our heater so we can still use the water system but leave the water heater out of it.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2013 18:42
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I do pretty much the same as Don. I disconnect my tankless water heater and have a fitting I hook my air compressor to and blow out all the lines. The water heater has a drain plug for winter and I open it and leave it open during the winter. Like Don, I have a bypass valve that allows me to use water inside the cabin when we go in the winter and keep the hot water out of the equation.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2013 19:06
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I like this plan. Only issue I have is bringing the compressor with me every time I go for this purpose.. any other smaller air pumps can use for this purpose? which will allow me to leave it there for that?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2013 21:11
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IF you have Ryobi One+ 18 volt cordless tools, there is a compressor that works well for that use. I have one and leave a charger and a battery at the cabin with it all the time. Plus a drill and a couple other tools that stay there. The compressor delivers enough pressure/volume to do the job if you cycle through each faucet a few times before moving on as it has only a small reservoir built into it.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2013 23:30
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I've thought about getting a very small 110 volt AC compressor like the Senco, then attaching an inverter to it so I can plug it into my 12 volt car system via the winch electrical plug. I'd have to cart the thing out to the truck to get it running, then run an air line into the house to the water heater where a hookup to the water piping would be. Disadvantage to this is buying both compressor and inverter, advantage is that I have an AC compressor to use elsewhere, and without the inverter if/when I get AC to the building.
I'm told that shower mixing valves are difficult to clear of water and can be ruined by freezing like any other plumbing.
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 08:11 - Edited by: SE Ohio
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There are also small refillable air tanks that one can charge elsewhere with a compressor and "lug" to the cabin. Might have enough volume to clear system? It is a bit smaller and lighter than an air compressor, and no power requirement.
Here's one on Ebay (haven't comparison shopped):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Gallon-Portable-Air-Tank-Tire-Sport-Equip-Emergency-/140707 192020
http://www.harborfreight.com/11-gallon-portable-air-tank-65595.html
Harbor Freight
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 10:19
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Quoting: bldginsp I'm told that shower mixing valves are difficult to clear of water and can be ruined by freezing like any other plumbing.
True. But I have had good luck (so far) with doing a thorough blow out using 40 psi in several bursts and leaving the valve in a fully open position. (Hope my luck holds). I should have mentioned that, but I forgot. A friend used to pull the cartridge every time they closed down their Alaskan cabin. That is actually easy if you leave the tools required there all the time.
The portable air tank could work, but I blow so much air I'd probably run out. But that may be just me
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 10:46
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Mtn Don said "The portable air tank could work, but I blow so much air I'd probably run out. But that may be just me"
I'm getting the idea that Optimistic's cabin/shed and maybe plumbing volume are small, so this might work for him. If piping all runs to a low point with drain valve, it might not take much. I think he's off-grid, too? No fun lugging a compressor if an air tank will do, but the old saying "your mileage may vary" certainly applies.
I went the basic route for my cabin. Pitcher pump, rubber sink traps. I heat a tank of water on the stove and use a drop-in bilge pump for showing. No static water (except in rubber traps), no winterizing! I just lock the door when I leave. Not for everyone.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 12:21
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I think a portable air tank would have plenty of air, when you look at the volume of air in a few lines. But, will you remember to fill it, and, will it leak?
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optimistic
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 12:24
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I am starting to think if I should just suck it up and leave/bring my compressor with me during the freeze months.
Doesn't seem to be so bad after-all.
btw - on a different topic: I didn't put snow guards yet... I called this nice american made company (http://www.snoblox.com/) and they said that I can't install them now with the adhesive only as it won't cure in this cold... I really don't want to punch a million holes in my roof and was hoping to just use the adhesive method.
Any thoughts? Should I just risk my gutters being ruined this winter or should I suck it up and install the ones with the screws?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 13:14 - Edited by: MtnDon
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We use the strip type of snow guards, 10 ft long strips that match the roof color. They are placed near the eve edge horizontally and screwed to the tops of the ribs with self drilling sheet metal screws. IMO better than perforating into the roof deck. They have a neoprene washer like the other screws. If not overtightened they do not leak. Will look for a photo.
I've also used conduit (metal) along the edge about 6 inches up from the eve. Secured to rib tops with conduit/pipe straps. They are all plated for excterior use. Just do not look as pretty. One side of our cabin has that. The other with the view from the driveway has the nicer looking stuff. Home has the nice stuff.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 14:16
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It was easier to take new photos 
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2013 14:20 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Sorry, no profile shot w/o climbing a ladder. It's sort of like an inverted V. The leg that is upslope is perpendicular to the roof whereas the downslope leg is slanted some. Screws every 3rd rib on the upslope side and every 4th rib on the downslope side.
I got them from my roofing supplier. They roll these right there same as they also roll the other trim.
Six inch wide gutters from another source that does seamless.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 10:00
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Thanks Don!
I will try to see where I can find this thing. Then you agree that those small snow guards are not so good? from roof holes perspective?
I will try blowing air in this weekend. I am bringing the compressor anyway
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cabinbiscuits
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 10:24
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Opti- The single snow stops screwed through the roof are not bad. I put them on my pole building roof and haven't had any problem with leaks at all. When I installed them, I just pre-drilled the screw pilot holes through the roof material and then put a dab of polyurethane roof sealant on each hole before setting the stop in place and screwing it in place. Sounds like a pain to dab each hole with sealant but really it's not. Just don't use silicone for a metal roof, it's not the right material. The polyurethane is what my roof manufacturer suggested, and they were certainly right, because is sticks like crazy. Obviously you want to have them screw into a purlin for strength though, and not just through the metal.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2013 14:33
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Quoting: optimistic Then you agree that those small snow guards are not so good? from roof holes perspective?
Well it was more a case of the strips being easier to install as a retrofit. When the roof went on we didn't think we wanted / needed gutters, after all if we get 8 inches on rain total in a year we're doing good. But then we decided we wanted to add gutters. WEe can get enough snow to tear gutters off. Not often but it does happen. So, the strip snow guards only took a few hours to add. The roof covers 1600 sq feet and adding the little singles would have taken longer. Much longer, as I would have removed an existing screw and installed the snow clip with a new screw/washer in the old hole. Way too much work for my likes.
I had seen pipes being used along the eves in Austria and Switzerland and they worked very well there. So I went in that direction.
I do like to keep the holes to a minimum but when screwed down "just right" the neoprene washers seal well.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2013 11:26
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Thanks for the info. how likely am I to loose my gutters to snow this season? I am thinking if just wait out this winter and then installing those single ones, without screws but only adhesive, in the spring.
BTW - I tried out blowing water out of my pipes with my compressor... worked really great. I am trying to figure out how a couple of things:
1. adding a entry point for the air. Similar to what Don did with the pvc and tire thing. Right now I have a point where I can introduce air into the pipes to - it is a regular garden bibb valve that I connected to my system. I can remove it and add something similar to what Don has but I was wondering if I can instead just DIY something that will work with what I have: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerks-Worldwide-1-2-in-Brass-MPT-x-MHT-Hose-Bibb-Valve -VHBSTDC3B/202370004?N=bbl6%3Frpp%3D96#.Up9XKMRDsYE
Maybe some plastic cap on those threads and then I'll drill into that cap and glue in the tire thing?
2. I can easily empty my shower head, bathroom faucet, and kitchen faucet as they all have where to drain to... but what am I doing with the hose that connects to the toilet? I have the RV type toilet... the one that uses a pint of what and is controlled by that paddle..
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2013 12:10
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If you have a tap like the one in your link you can easily make up a fitting to screw onto the tap and connects directly to your air hose. This is essentially what I have done. I have a hose connection for cold water that goes to my eccotemp water heater that is outside. I unscrew that connection in the winter and hook this fitting to that and then my compressor. I have attached a couple of pics of what I use. As far as the RV toilet goes I'm not sure if it is similar to a regular toilet but the air also empties out water that is in the tank of my toilet. I just put RV antifreeze in the bowl.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2013 12:15
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Not to hijack, but optimistic, re: your gutters - I am in the Adks where snow is deep in the winter and ice buildup is prevalent. I used this method for fastening rain gutters and I spaced them at 16" apart. They have been up for 5 years with no trouble, even being iced up. Thought this might help.
the one to the left in this pic
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optimistic
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2013 13:08
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Thanks bobrok! Any link to this item?
skoot - then you are running directly from the compressor? when you want to shot it off you shut the compressor off? I thought of using it with this air gun: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Pistol-Grip-Blow-Gun-HDA50400AV/100064491#.Up9vlsRDs YE
What parts did you use?
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2013 14:23
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This picture may show it better. Yes I connect it directly to my compressor hose with the quick connect fitting. There are four parts in total making it up. There is a female swivel hose end with a 3/4 inch adapter screwed into that. This adaptor has an inside thread with an adaptor screwed into it that takes it down to 1/2" with an inside thread taking it down to 3/8" for the quick connect fitting for the compressor hose. I charge my compressor to about 40psi and then connect the hose, open the taps and let the water flow until it's just air. With the tap you already have installed you could connect to a compressor with this fitting and then just open and close that tap to control the air flow if you wished. I have one of these made up I leave at the cabin with a small compressor. I have one made up for home with my other compressor I use to blow out my hoses and water lines for landscaping. Works great and is quick and easy. All parts were purchased at Canadian Tire but they are readily available at Home Depot etc.
Hose connector better pic
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bobrok
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2013 14:47
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URL
Nothing special, just be sure you use aluminum and not vinyl. Mounted with deck screws to the facia board. I allowed for about a 5" drop over a 16' run and used rivets to piece together the sections. Above all I make sure they are free of debris before closing up. I should say also that all of the parts I used were scavanged save for a few random pieces I needed.
@skoot: nifty little contraption. I like that!
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Fanman
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 18:47
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I did the plumbing in my cabin with a significant slope, one valve and it all drains. I do disconnect and blow out the tankless heater just to be safe since it has this funky turbogenerator to make spark for the ignition, but I use a small 30psi compressor for that (and I only do it once a year, since the water for the entire area is shut off in mid October).
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 18:58
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Quoting: bldginsp I think a portable air tank would have plenty of air, when you look at the volume of air in a few lines. But, will you remember to fill it, and, will it leak?
I purchased an 11 gallon portable air tank from Home Depot for our Junior motocross team. Filled it up to 150 PSI (I have a huge 80 gallon 2 stage compressor at home) and it has never leaked. In fact, I keep it in the trailer and take it with me when I pull the trailer. Great to fill a tire back up etc. It has lots of volume. I have a 6 gallon Porter Cable pancake compressor that is fairly small and easy to pack, runs with ease with my Honda EU2000i, all good options to blow air through the water lines. Dont forget the pee trap in sinks, toilets etc. You can buy that winter RV type antifreeze and pour a little into the drains to keep the drain closed to sewer gas, but clear of anything that will freeze.
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