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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 09:36
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ok... don't laugh.. :P
I know this is not "normal".. heh.. but, I am having fun with one of my new deer stands. Well, to most it would be a small cabin ;)
I have electricity at my main cabin. I have a deer stand about 1700 feet from it. (yep.. that's right)
If ALL I want is an electrical outlet at the deer stand to charge an iphone and run a wifi hotspot.. (grin)... can I run something that far?
I hear about degradation etc but there will be no other outlets along the way, so was curious.
Also, what would we be talking about for an outlet.. maybe 6% degraded voltage due to distance, since no other outlets?
Thanks!
Russ
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 09:48 - Edited by: MtnDon
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A load of 1/2 amp and voltage drop of 3% can be done with 12 gauge copper. 1 amp = 8 gauge copper
1700 feet won't be cheap.
10 gauge and 6 gauge respectively for aluminum wire
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 10:33
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Hey MNT.. I mainly want to set up a couple places where I can boost the wifi signal, more than anything.. so we can communicate throughout the 330 acres, in case of an accident.
So, if someone blows a fuse because they plugged in a dang fan.. heh, they deserve that ;)
Thank you for the input, btw
Russ
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TheCabinCalls
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 10:53
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The hillbilly answer is to get some direct burial wire in as low gauge as you can afford. 10/3 is $1/ft, 12/3 wire is about $.88 per foot.
The frugal answer is to see if anyone on craigslist or a local power company has any 4/0 cable. Might be able to get something nice under 10 gauge for around $2/foot.
The right answer is to put up poles or direct burial of a heavy gauge 2 or 4 and run that. It might be $3 a foot ($.87 per strand).
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swampshaman
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 10:54
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have you thought about a small solar panel/inverter setup.may be cheaper...should give youa ll the power you need for a wifi booster and phone charger
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 10:56
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Quoting: jrbarnard I mainly want to set up a couple places where I can boost the wifi signal
Can you explain what you need in more detail? Are you talking about expanding a wifi source at the cabin to cover more area over the ranges you are discussing is not trivial. Wireless b/g/n will have a maximum range in the order of 300 feet outdoors with no obstructions (and this is a max value). Directional antennas, masts, amplifiers etc can impact this but it is not trivial to implement.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 11:00
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I did the math, 4/0 is way more than I care to spend. heh.. we are talking like 20k to run it that way.
I am debating the solar setup.. probably the best route.
I am getting phone and internet at the ranch (as soon as they can figure out how to run Ethernet 500 feet as the only/best place for point to point signal is 488 feet away).. and I wanted to take my wifi signal and boost it throughout the ranch so folks could text / call via the internet.
The best solution might not entail running it to that stand, but up the hill and just powering a really good wifi antenna that reaches out.
The deer stand solution was an idea.. but I am thinking not worth the trouble or cost.
Russ
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hueyjazz
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 12:27
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For what you are talking maybe a 12 volt battery with a power inverter.
Max run of Cat5/6 wire is 328' or 100 meters. It's the resistance of the wire that gets you. Longer runs require a repeater which could be powered from the CAT5/6 wire. You only use two of the four pairs of wire in CAT5/6
Wifi antenna might work but line of sight is often required. Wired is always better however going out 1700' is pressing it. Fiber optic can do it but you aren't going to like the cost.
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TheCabinCalls
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 12:30
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Heck 2 Mile radios are the cheapest way to communicate while out at the "ranch".
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 13:32
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I think we pretty much nix'd the idea of running an electrical line to the deer stand. Solar is the way to go IF we even need that.
I think we will run a wire up the hill behind us and simply instal a really nice antenna setup that should give us signal wherever we need on our ranch. The people like 10 tracts up from us (3000 acres away) have wifi and we can pick that signal up at the top of the hill, so if we do the same with ours, we should easily be able to hook it up and we already have the cable to run a line up there plus tall electrical poles set up.
The phone company is trying to figure out how we can add Ethernet since the best signal they got with the antenna they were testing is 488 feet away and Ethernet only does a little over 300 feet.
I told them, since they are running electrical anyway, add a pole in between and boost the Ethernet signal. seems to be a no brainer for me...dunno.
Russ
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stickbowcrafter
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 21:04
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You said don't laugh so I won't. Most folks go to their cabin to get away from all that stuff. But to each their own, that's what makes this forum so interesting.
-Brian
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 21:44
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heh.. well, I am doing this for 2 reasons... the uncle who owns the other 260 acres wants his neice, my wife, to have a phone line in case of emergency.. so.. he who pays gets what he wants ;)
reason 2 is, when I cannot be AT the ranch, I can watch it through the wireless cams ;)
Russ
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stickbowcrafter
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2014 23:45
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No need to explain, was just having some fun with you. Those new remote cameras look great, would definitely be a nice option. Let us know what you end up going with.
-Brian
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bronco_ed
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2014 21:49 - Edited by: bronco_ed
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You can take along one of the 12v emergency car battery jumpers, it is enough to keep those small items items running. The new ones have a USB port and or cigarette lighter style for charging such items as a phone, myfi, etc.... Much cheaper than running out a line. charge it over night for the following day.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 16:09
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this is harder than it seems.. heh
I am stumping folks, at the antenna place, I guess they do not realize people sometimes have places out in the boonies :P
Ok, scope has changed. Based upon what you all have said, I have narrowed the scope of what I want to do, but I need some solid avice on what is possible.
Cabin has all the electrical power I need.
Approximately 400-600 ft up the hill behind me is 3 bars of cell phone signal.
No, what I would LIKE is to have some of that cell phone signal down at the cabin, for emergency purposes only. I do not care if folks can get cell phone reception all over the ranch (although that would be nice)...I just want reception at the cabin.
So, was figuring a Yagi antenna and a booster and maybe another yagi that transmits the signal towards the cabin, or omni directional or something of that sort.
Ideas?
Thoughts?
Sorry for all of the questions.. I am not an electrical person.. I can build it.. heh.. but I do not know amps and all that.
I figured, if all I needed was 1 or 2 amps.. maybe I can run a 10/2 wire that far or something, just to get that much power.
Thanks guys
Russ
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 17:55
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Problem I see is that it is really difficult to know what will work without some experimentation and this can get expensive. Putting an antenna on the hill and running the best cable back to the cabin would not work without amplification (you likely lose about 2 dB per 50' of cable). Could you put a booster in the middle with another antenna at the cabin? Maybe but this would need to be powered and they tend to draw a fair amount. I use a Wilson SOHO 65 - 12 volts in my cabin but it can use up to 3 amps so I only run it when I need it. I'm not really sure the math would work anyway given the multiple losses along the way but it has been a long time since I have done this type of analysis in depth.
The cheapest option, (assuming no power out 400 ft) would be to see if a good yagi antenna (maybe on a tower or the roof) can actually "see" a cell tower well enough. Problem is that this a hit and miss process. I would suggest you google something like "locate cell phone towers" - there are a number of sites that offer this service -and find out what is in your area as the best option may not be the closest (as was my situation). At my cabin the cell tower that I can occasionally get my phone to see (1 bar) turned out not to be the one that provided the best signal once I mounted a yagi up on the roof (the tower is almost 15km away).
From here you can determine the actual band being used using the test mode on your phone (WIlson has information on this at Phone test modes which then allows you to select the best antenna.
There are a number of manufacturers of boosters - I'm most familiar with WIlson and have found that they are very responsive if you ask for help putting together your system - the key is making sure you can return everything if you have no luck.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 18:40
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We use the idea TheCabinCalls mentioned; 2 way radios. Portable , rechargeable, go anywhere we want, even up to a few miles away.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 19:15
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yea, I hear ya Mnt.. just having fun coming up with cool ideas to boost what we have :P
Now that the cabin is "finished" I am having fun with trying to get a little signal down to the deer stands and cabin. My wife's uncle wants his neice to be able to make a call out in case there is a problem... soo...in for a dime, in for a dollar.. now we go "well, if we get WIFI, we can get a wifi phone (magic jack) which we already picked up and have working.
I hate the idea of bringing TV to the place, but the phone line was $4500.. that was not happening.. so we are going to opt for dish network.. but you have to have a TV package.. blech.. so we are getting the very basic TV package and a 25gb per month data package.
THEN, we want to spread the WIFI all over the ranch so we can add cameras at the deer stands.. lol.. so when we cannot be AT the ranch, we can watch it ;)
So.. since it is a 25gb limit, I wanted to find a way to boost the cell signal as well so we could have guests use their phones instead of the internet.
R
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 22:18
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I'm kind of working the problem from the other end. I can talk to a wireless tower that's 6 miles away on a mountaintop from a spot 600' above the house using a yagi antenna and microtic groove reciever. Getting the signal back down to the house is going to take some experimenting. It would be nice to boost a cell signal out from there. For line voltage drop there is a calculator near the bottom of this page;
http://timbertoolbox.com/
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 6 Apr 2014 22:49
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Yea, same issue, pretty much, Don. I can get three bars about 500 feet away from the cabin, but getting it back to the cabin is the issue.
I would not be so worried about getting it BACK to the cabin if I could get some sort of antenna that would be like a wifi antenna and just sorta broadcast it, for lack of a better word, in a radius.
Hard to describe... just not sure how to get the signal up on top of the hill, down below.. whether to use an antenna to point it that way or have it carried to an antenna in the cabin etc.. no idea
Russ
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