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chrisser
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 11:14
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Little background...
We lived in NE Ohio, and I took a job in rural WV (hour south of Parkersburg) in April. Living in our camper since, but in June-ish we bought a roughly 20 x 20 cabin.
The cabin was never designed for year-round living, but that is our intent. I've spent the summer and fall essentially rebuilding it. Gutted the interior. Stripped off the vinyl siding and installed house wrap. Replaced all the windows and door. Vented the eaves. Put on a new metal roof. Just finished putting the last of the siding back on this week. So the outside's basically done, it's weather tight and I'm ready to tackle the inside.
The POs had a small ventless hanging wall heater and apartment-sized stove that they ran on propane. They didn't leave the tank, but there's a 3/8 copper line sticking out of the ground on the side of the house. The panelling was warping, which I attribute to a combination of unprotected sheathing under the siding, and a ventless propane heater spewing water vapor into the air (and the roof leaking).
I bought two 100lb cylinders with multivalves and a regulator. Have a traditional vented wall furnace to install, and we will have a full size stove, demand water heater, and gas dryer.
I need to get the furnace installed so I can work inside.
The cabin is on top of a hill.
I've run NG lines in our old house, and also replaced the entire propane system on the camper when I rebuilt it, so I have a decent amount of experience running gas lines, sizing the system, etc. but not much in the way of setting up the feed to the structure. Been doing some research, but having trouble finding something along the lines of a "best practice" for our situation. There is no code enforcement or inspector in our county, and since I'll be hauling my tanks to TSC for refill, no propane company to consult.
Have two areas of questions and the answer to the first set is probably going to drive the answer to the second...
Is locating the tanks next to the cabin as the POs did a bad idea? It would be awfully convenient, and easy and the roof overhang would offer much weather protection, but I can see how living right next to compressed flammable gas might be bad. If not, what's the customary minimum recommended distance?
Anything more than a few feet away is going to locate the tanks downhill - probably at least 30-50' before I get to an area flat enough to set up a platform. Any special considerations for an uphill feed line run? Is plastic piping the best solution or is there something better I should consider? Is it worth buildling a small structure over the tanks and regulator then since they'll be out in the open?
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 11:41
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Pretty much have done exactly what you are doing. Out in rural area many people use propane as their fuel source. I see dual 200 pound tank unprotected near the house all the time. The only thing I did was pour a concrete pad for the tanks to rest on. When I'm not there I close the valve on my tank
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razmichael
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 11:47
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Reference the first question, although you are not subject to an inspection, there are many on-line sources to give you an idea of placement regulations in different areas. Here are a couple:
Propane101
Where
Take away is that the tank size makes a difference but the key driver is distance from spark sources, vents etc, not the distance from the building (for the smaller tanks). At home we have two large tanks against the back wall of the house. At one point they needed to be moved over 3 feet because we added an Air Conditioner system. Whether you want a tank next to the house is up to you, but I suspect most codes allow it as long as the other criteria are met (for the smaller size tanks).
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2015 14:04 - Edited by: bldginsp
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The uphill feed run increases the length of pipe you are using, and will affect the pipe size calculations. With an on demand water heater and other appliances this could be significant. The 3/8 you now have probably won't work.
Plastic pipe is a lot easier to instal but should be buried to 18". I know you don't have inspections but you don't want some eager beaver swinging a pick axe into the pipe 10 years later. Make sure you know what you are doing with the couplings at the pipe ends. When getting inspections a plastic gas pipe installer is supposed to have a training certificate. Safety first. You could probably get a pipe supplier to attach couplings for you to a given length of pipe, then you haul it out to the site and instal with metal pipe risers.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2015 20:51
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We have two one hundred pound tanks beside the cabin with no issues. They are protected by the roof overhang. Like hueyjazz said we turn the tanks off when we are not there and there are all kinds of houses in the area with tanks located right beside the house. I guess I also think about all the houses in the city that have 20 pound tanks in the BBQ beside the house. Or all the trailers and rv's with propane tanks on the front of them. As long as it's hooked up properly and soap tests are conducted to ensure no leaks, propane is a very safe fuel.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 08:44
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Quoting: skootamattaschmidty As long as it's hooked up properly and soap tests are conducted to ensure no leaks, propane is a very safe fuel.
Agreed. But, I have to say, I have seen it go bad. In the city where I work, an RV parked next to a person's house had a propane fire which totaled his house and damaged the house next door. He got insurance money to repair everything, now he has a nice new house, and a nice new RV parked in exactly the same spot.
That said, I plan to put a couple of tanks in a small mechanical closet built right up against the side of my cabin. But if I ever get a larger permanent tank, I'll put it farther away.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 09:13
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Always plan for Murphy's Laws to be applied in cases like this.
Bear in mind that LPG is a heavy gas, meaning it goes to ground level, where Natural Gas is a light gas that dissipates into the air. Ensure you have adequate ventilation at both top & bottom where your propane tanks are, especially if your going to put a cover over them to protect from foul weather.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 10:24
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This link takes you to an article with illustrations. The recommended distances can vary depending on whether the tank/cylinder is filled off site or filled on site. This is the NFPA regulation. Local regulations can override those and make the distances greater.
We did move our tanks a distance away from the initial installation point for wildfire danger reasons. I figured it might be better to have them more remote as we are not always there, but much of the year need to leave the propane on to operate the refrigerator. There was the slight risk if a fire came close that a hose could melt and release propane or that heat from a fire could cause the high pressure blow off to release propane. A melted hose is not a huge deal as the OPD cylinders release gas slowly when that happens. They work, I've performed an accidental test. The high pressure release though is like a huge blowtorch flame. I didn't want that near the cabin. So we buried about 45 feet of gas approved underground line.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 10:29 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Another paper with differences for tank sizes and distances between multiple on site tanks included. Non-portable types. Again, local code may be different.
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chrisser
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2015 13:54
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Thanks for all the info.
For some reason I didn't get any notifications on the thread posts or I would have read answers sooner.
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