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Driftless Area
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 11:42
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I was wondering if there is a method to heat a small cabin's wellhouse for use in the winter in the Upper Midwest? I was thinking specifically of occasional winter use where the rest of the cabin is closed down but where you would still be able to use water should you choose to visit the cabin in the winter? Thanks in advance.
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hattie
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 12:30
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Hattie's Hubby suggests: "Go to a place like Princess Auto and purchase a small, gas powered water pump. They have a one inch pump for about $100. Set up an inlet pipe that when you disconnect the pump, it drains back into the well. The water in the well won't freeze because it is way below the frost line. When you want to use it, just connect up the inlet side of the pump, start the pump up and there is your water. After use make sure that you either drain the pump out completely or better yet, take it home with you so it stays nice and warm and easy to start.
Hope this helps.
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Driftless Area
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 12:34
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Thanks. Part of my concern is that when the water is restored in the winter that it will be in the single digits or below zero and I am concerned about the pipes prior to their entering the heated cabin.
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hattie
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 13:05
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Hi Driftless Area: We thought you were just going to pump water into a bucket and take it into your cabin. When we used to winterize our cabin, we drained the entire water system because if you lose heat when you aren't there all the pipes will freeze. If your current pump is at the bottom of the well (ie a jet pump) and all of the pipes in the pump house and between the pump house and the building are below the frost line, you shouldn't have a problem. The most likely pipes to freeze are the ones inside the cabin (ie above ground) when there is no heat. If you are concerned about cold air inside the well, and you have electricity on 24/7, you could hang a lightbulb (not a new type - use the old style) inside the well at about the frost line and make sure your well cover is well insulated.
The safest way is to just use the gas powered pump, pump the water into a bucket and take it into the cabin and not use any of the pipes during the winter when you aren't there. If you are concerned about flushing a toilet, you can still flush a toilet just using a bucket of water.
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Driftless Area
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 13:14
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I want to be able to use the cabin fully - including the shower. While we are using it in winter, it will be fully heated (inside). I am concerned about the pipe under the cabin as well. And just for clarification this is for a cabin that we are in the planning stages for.
Thanks,
David
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Driftless Area
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 16:46
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I think that I have the answer that I am looking for but I have a follow-up question: if the pump is in the well and pipe from the well to cabin is below the frostline is there a concern when the pipe goes to the cabin and is exposed because the cabin is on posts?
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hattie
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 18:22 - Edited by: hattie
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Hattie's Hubby says:
Quoting: Driftless Area if the pump is in the well and pipe from the well to cabin is below the frostline is there a concern when the pipe goes to the cabin and is exposed because the cabin is on posts?
Absolutely - The normal situation is for the pipe to enter the foundation below the frost line (often entering through the floor of the crawlspace, well away from any outside walls). Our cabin has the foundation insulated on the inside and an auxillary electric heater in the crawlspace with a thermostat set to 40 degrees F (5 degrees C). All of our plumbing is in the crawlspace.
Since your cabin is on posts, the only solution I can see would be an enclosed and insulated space (2 ft. square minimum) running from the cabin floor to below the frost line, with a small source of heat (eg. lightbulb) to keep that space from freezing. The pipe would be running up the middle of that space. Obviously none of your water lines could be below the floor as they would freeze. Don't forget you will have to insulate the floor to prevent heat loss through it. The pipes would have to be in the walls and on the inside of the insulation - better yet, don't put them in any outside walls.
The greatest danger I can see, since you are not going to be living there full time, is a power outage causing a loss of heat and everything freezing up while you are not there. You could easily arrive to find a huge amount of water damage after the pipes had frozen, burst, and then thawed when the heat came back on. That is why we drained our water system every winter. You are taking a huge chance by leaving the water on in the winter months when you aren't actually at your cabin.
Just to let you know how easily it is for pipes to freeze, even when installed in an insulated crawl space with an auxillary heater, the water pipe to our shower (which was installed on an outside wall - very bad idea) used to freeze where the line entered the wall from the crawlspace because there was a small amount of insulation on the inside of the pipe. I was very careful to make sure that the pipe in the wall was extremely well insulated between the exterior and the pipe. Where the pipe made the turn from the crawlspace into the wall, it was well insulated on the outside but I made the mistake of having some insulation between the pipe and the interior of the crawlspace - I actually wrapped the pipe in insulation. Just that was enough to allow the pipe to freeze when the temperature dropped to -25 C.
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Upper
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# Posted: 16 Nov 2010 21:09
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From the upper peninsula of Michigan where it gets to 20F below zero.
dig a hole down below frost line ( 4 feet in my area) say 5 1/2 feet to the top of your well. build a wood box of 2 x 12 and put the pump in the box an attach to the well. Run pex tubing from the pump to the cabin. The pump must be self priming. Put a check valve in the cabin. Use a Heatline heat tape for the last part of the pipe to the cabin. Insulate the pipe where the tape is attached. You will need to do some searching to get pipe insulation for a 2 to 1 1/2 inch pipe. Heatline tape is designed to work under insulation. run power to the pump with the switch in the cabin. Bury the pump and pipe. Turn on the pump and water will go into your pressure tank. Plug in heat tape while you are using the system. When you leave, drain the pipes/pressure tank and winterize the drains and toilet. I have drain valves on every faucet/water outlet. My outside faucet is below the pressure tank so I drain it through the outside faucet. Open the check valve and water will drain back down the well. Now the system can freeze with no harm. On returning to the cabin, heat it up for a couple of hours. Plug in heat tape. Turn on pump and you are back in business.
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Driftless Area
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2010 19:37 - Edited by: Driftless Area
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Thanks Hattie and Upper.
- David
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2010 22:03
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There is a item called a "pitless adapter" which allows you water line to come up from the side of the well casing below the frost line (4 feet where my cabin is) but you still need a place for your pressure tank etc.
Someone mentioned "Pex" which is the hot ticket. It expands, very pliable. It wont split like copper. Easy to work with too. Just plumb the cabin in a way where you have a drain on a low spot. A outside faucet can be used as a lot point drain.
Dont forget to even drain your toilets. Both the tank and the pea trap.
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