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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 07:48
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So my trusty and long-suffering B & D weed eater died amid a veritable forest of new weeds, poor thing. It's been storming here for weeks and, while I paid to have my yard done professionally, it's already a jungle because of the crazy amount of rain we've been getting.
I ordered a new mower via Home Depot -- a lithium battery-powered one that's lightweight but powerful AND has a snowblower brother that will come in handy in Oregon. Keen on lithium, I trotted off to find a lithium batt weed eater, too, and saw that Black & Decker has one at a good price.
Lo and behold, on the box, it says it's part of a FAMILY of tools that share the same size of lithium battery. (Different volts, perhaps, but they can be swapped around, anyway.) I needed a new drill/driver, too, so off I went to the tool section and found the Matrix system.
Bought the drill and weed eater, both 20V. Charged both batteries and, yeah, the batteries are interchangeable despite being different colors so it's nice to have two. Both seem to have good power and aren't too heavy for me. 
Now, the Matrix tool accessories include a reciprocating saw, jigsaw, trim saw, sander, oscillating tool, router, and some other things.
I DO need a saw of some sort to cut some wood in the future. Nothing especially wide or thick. Things like fence pickets/boards, trim, maybe half-inch plywood, that sort of thing. What sort of saw accessories would y'all recommend? The nice thing is that since I have the drill, I can easily add other tools to run off it without having a bunch of big tools taking up a bunch of space and without breaking the bank.
Do any of y'all have the Matrix system or something similar? Will it serve a total novice like me pretty well for her cabin projects? Any other accessories I should consider adding besides a saw or two?
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Asher
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 08:27
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I have a lot of the Ryobi cordless tools.. not because they are really good (I think they are about average), but because they are pretty cheap for what you get... I have found that little 4 1/2" circular saw pretty dang handy when you need to make a quick cut on something and don't want to drag out a cord... My recip saw gets used as a quick branch trimmer if a small limb comes down in a storm or something and it's not worth fighting the chain saw or too late at night and don't want to wake the neighbors. The 1/2 impact makes quick work of changing a tire or driving in a big lag bolt if your out of range of the air compressor... The angle grinder works pretty good for putting a edge on a mower blade, or shaving off a bolt or nail, but eats batteries fast...
If I was to put the tools in order it would be:
-Drill
-Circular Saw
-Recip Saw
-1/2" impact
If money wasn't an object, I would have Rigid tools in my chest, they make some awesome tools and lifetime warranty on everything including batteries is pretty impressive...
Make sure to keep your batteries charged and get a couple extras, I also use a paint marker and put the date on my batteries to give me an idea of their life spans.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 08:37
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Lithium batteries are a big plus. You can let them drain to nothing, leave them for long periods, and they will recharge just fine. The other battery types just don't last as long, and are expensive to replace. I have DeWalt tools with the NiCad batteries, and I've replaced the batteries, and that hurts when you buy 4-5 new batteries. When these batteries die I'm going to invest in a new set of lithium tools.
Black and Decker, Ryobi, Craftsman are the cheaper alternative. You can't expect them to last as long. But for occasional DIY use they are fine. I'd avoid any off-brand from China that is even cheaper. But I prefer the better name brands like DeWalt, Rigid, Hilti, etc. because they are better built and will last longer. I've had my DeWalt drill for over a decade.
Buy what you need when you need it, unless you like to collect tools. However, they do offer packages of 4-5 tools which are a bit of a bargain.
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RiverCabin
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 09:09
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I have the black and decker battery weed eater and I generally like it.
My wife hates running the commercial stihl weedeater so I bought her the lithium weedeater/blower combo with two batteries for $99. It is very light, both in weight and in cutting ability but for trimming after mowing it does a good job. Do not expect to cut any weeds much thicker than grass. We've had it for three or four seasons and it seems to be holding up well. Be prepared to pay another 45-50 for their fast charger. The included charger takes ~8 hours for a full charge.
I can't speak as to their hand tools but I would generally avoid them. I've had very good luck with both Porter-Cable and Hitachi.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 09:12
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Asher
Thanks. Yeah, I was eyeing that little circular saw and thought that might be the saw I get. I def need a saw as I have a small project in mind at my current home.
Speaking of chainsaws, the lithium-batt mower that's scheduled to arrive tomorrow has a 40V battery and a chainsaw in its family. I never knew you could have a lithium battery-powered chainsaw! I'm keeping it in mind for the future. The snow blower will be a no-brainer, lol.
bldginsp
Supposedly, these batteries will hold their charge for 18 months. We'll see!
I needed a drill, I know that I need a saw, maybe 2, and after that, I'll see. The big DIY project I have in mind for the cabin that I would do myself is a deck made of pallets and fence boards (either cedar or douglas fir). I have the plans and it's quite simple. Gravel, concrete patio squares, sturdy pallets treated and connected together, and then the fence boards cut and screwed into the pallets as the deck floor.
Would the circular saw be enough and the best saw for a project like that or would a different saw or a second one be needed?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 10:26
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I don't have the B&D kit but this new series certainly looks promising. I have the DeWalt 20V LiIon tools and just love'm... Batteries charge fast and hold their charge in hot or cold weather with no appreciable issues.
I spent a fair bit of time shopping out my tools and found that when the "Kits / Bundles" come on sale, that is certainly the best bang for buck... B&D Offers such bundles as well.
Tools I use constantly are the Circular Saw, Drill & Saws-all (reciprocating saw) and the impact driver has certainly earned it's keep.
NOTE ON CIRC SAW: The Cordless ones use a smaller blade (6-1/2" vs 7-1/4") and sometimes it's hard to get the smaller ones, so it's good to have spares at hand when doing a project... Best bang for buck is when the multi-packs are on sale and I found that the actual DeWalt blades outlast most other brands and I have tried a few different ones and wasted cash on the lesser brands.
If your looking at making designs / patterns for fencing or trims etc, a Jig Saw gives you that flexibility but that has limited application so if your going to use it a lot then it's wise to get.
I looked at the specs for the 40V MAX* Lithium 21 In. Brushless Snow Thrower and that seems like a good tool for "Light Snow" but I think it would be dubious for heavy / wet snow or anything of serious depth...
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razmichael
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 11:40
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I've used the Ryobi line for 20? years. I know they may not be the considered the best but given the deals HD will often give for sets, I consider them great value for money. In fact, I have had only one saw burn out in all the time I have been using them - and frankly I abused the saw! - No I lie - also burnt out a drill trying to drill through rock (didn't work). I have one of the original drills that runs great on the latest batteries - even have an old battery (not Lithium) that still runs all the rest of the tools (albeit less power). Last year I picked up the 2" 18g brad nailer and put thousands of brads through it doing the T&G inside. I think I had only one jam and that was when I switched brad make. They recently came out with a 16g nailer. I have generally collected duplicates of most of the tools and have one set at home and one at the cabin so I generally charge up the batteries at hope and carry a bunch to the cabin when I go (although I can charge them off the solar if needed). Latest tools was the miter saw - great for when I put the loft laminate flooring down a couple of weeks ago. It is really nice to be able to do a lot of work at the cabin without needing to run the generator. It is important however to realize the limitations of the tools - I know that the miter saw is not designed to to do heavy work and anyone who thought otherwise would be disappointing. Kinda like the Ryobi weed wacker I also have - not going to cut through brush but perfect for light work and so much more peaceful to use than the gas one.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 12:36 - Edited by: bldginsp
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Would the circular saw be enough and the best saw for a project like that or would a different saw or a second one be needed?
A circ saw would certainly be the main tool you would use for that. Get several spare blades for when you hit nails in the pallets. (Don P is laughing uproariously right now).
A screw gun is always essential. I'd screw down the fence boards to the pallets rather than nail them. Or, more correctly, I'd suggest that you do so, because I wouldn't be caught dead making a deck out of pallets and fence boards myself. But I'm sure it's an economical way to go.
Two screw guns is handy for when you need to predrill for the screws, as in some of the hardwoods they use to make pallets. One gun for the drill bit, one to drive the screws.
A sawzall reciprocating saw wouldn't be necessary for that project, but they are very useful to have on the long term and have gotten me out of corners that I boxed myself into more than once.
I have bought most of my battery tools used at the flea market or craigslist, risky, but I haven't had a failure yet.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 14:27
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RiverCabin
Glad to see that you generally like the weed eater. I don't know what level of charge the battery had when I bought it but it took less than 90 minutes to reach full charge. I opted to get the package that just had the weed eater and one battery, knowing that I'd be buying a drill that had a battery, too.
I tested it out briefly on my thick forest of weeds last night and it performed great, even though it was raining and my yard is a swamp. I'm hopeful.
I hate the gas-powered jobbies. They're too heavy and cumbersome for me, plus they're loud and smelly. Geez, the little $17 B & D electric weed eater I picked up to replace the gas trimmer has been a workhorse, even clearing out thick, gnarly weeds that sprung up when I was in the hospital several times.
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Asher
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 14:55
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Something else to keep in mind, when your battery packs crap out, take out the guts and screw the shell to the wall, they make great tool holders, and keep the tools in easy view to help keep track.
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dsmith14469
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 14:55
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I have the Matrix combo.
Drill, Sander, Circular Saw then went and bought the Jig Saw adapter. I like the system. The circular saw will cut through 2x material fairly easily unless it hits a knot. I also bought the power charger which charges the batteries a lot quicker than the adapters you receive with the tools and batteries.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 15:38
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Quoting: Steve_S NOTE ON CIRC SAW: The Cordless ones use a smaller blade (6-1/2" vs 7-1/4") and sometimes it's hard to get the smaller ones, so it's good to have spares at hand when doing a project...
Quoting: bldginsp A circ saw would certainly be the main tool you would use for that. Get several spare blades for when you hit nails in the pallets. (Don P is laughing uproariously right now).
Would you believe hitting the cinder block that was used to support the 4x8 siding I was cutting? That became a butter knife in no time
I know my B & D 18v batteries have lasted me almost the whole build. Now they don't hold much but they got me through the worst of it. All without a power outlet!
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 15:55
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Quoting: Steve_S NOTE ON CIRC SAW: The Cordless ones use a smaller blade (6-1/2" vs 7-1/4") and sometimes it's hard to get the smaller ones, so it's good to have spares at hand when doing a project... Best bang for buck is when the multi-packs are on sale and I found that the actual DeWalt blades outlast most other brands and I have tried a few different ones and wasted cash on the lesser brands.
Yeah, I was wondering about that. I've since read that the Matrix and Craftsman systems are actually the same, were developed together. B & D agreed to delay rolling out theirs after Craftsman. Anyway, you can use the Craftsman accessories on the B & D Matrix (and vice-versa). Craftsman has more options and offerings; B & D has the lower price points and is more basic. Interesting.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:08
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Quoting: bldginsp A screw gun is always essential. I'd screw down the fence boards to the pallets rather than nail them. Or, more correctly, I'd suggest that you do so, because I wouldn't be caught dead making a deck out of pallets and fence boards myself. But I'm sure it's an economical way to go. OMG, Mr. Fancy Pants! Glad my pallet deck won't be near you to drive down your property value! Or my repurposed toilet flower planter in the front yard, hahahahaha! (KIDDING!!!)
OK, explain to me the difference between a screwgun and a good drill/driver. Doubtful I'd be drilling stuff so wouldn't having a screwgun and a driver/drill be duplicating a tool, in my case? (Except for the Matrix system, most accessory tools connect to that driver base as the power unit.)
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:09
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dsmith14469
Where did you find the power charger? I haven't seen one locally (or even offered online, but I haven't looked extensively yet).
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:14
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razmichael
My hope is that the B & D line lasts for decades similarly, is expanded, and not discontinued. I'm concerned about investing too much in a system like this, only to have it end and then not be able to find parts and batteries for it. 
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:21
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Quoting: Wilbour I know my B & D 18v batteries have lasted me almost the whole build.
Wilbour, I've read similar accounts in reviews and found it encouraging.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 16:42
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This is the lithium ion mower I bought:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sun-Joe-iON16LM-40-Volt-16-in-Cordless-Electric-Lawn-Mower -with-Brushless-Motor-iON16LM/205210742
And its winter-weather brother I will buy later:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sun-Joe-iON16LM-40-Volt-16-in-Cordless-Electric-Lawn-Mower -with-Brushless-Motor-iON16LM/205210742
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 17:19
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon difference between a screwgun and a good drill/driver
A variable speed drill can be used to drive screws. That is what many folks use. An impact driver is used to drive screws and bolts.
A drill used to drive a lot of screws may overheat as the motor is driven slower than the speeds used for drilling holes. That means the cooling fan runs slower too. Admittedly one would have to drive a lot of screws in hard wiids for that to normally become a problem.
An impact driver looks somewhat the same but does not have the drill chuck. It has a bit holder for screw driving bits. This is different from a hammer drill. An impact driver supplies much more torque than a drill/driver. Great for driving deck and lag screws. They drive fast. Not good for some other smaller, more delicate work.
YMMV, but I find a cordless variable speed drill/driver to be the most often used power tool, closely followed by my impact driver. There is a place for both. As bldginsp mentioned when placing screws in hardwoods a drill is pretty much a necessity. Also id you plan on using any lag screws a drill is needed to drill holes.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 17:51
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Sorry Julie I had too much coffee this morning.
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buckybuck
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 18:34
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I'm gradually replacing my corded tools with Ryobi 18 volt ones. I'm embarrassed to admit I hadn't kept up on tool technology the past couple of years, and hadn't even heard of a cordless impact driver until two months ago. Now it's my favorite tool! I used mine to screw oak planks up for interior walls in my cabin, and the impact driver made it an easy job.
One tip I have is to look on eBay for "like new" tools that have been pulled from these Home Depot and Lowes combo kits that have been returned.
One thing I'm curious about--so far, my lithium batteries have lasted longer than my arm, but I wonder about recharging them off-grid. I even sent a query to Ryobi about this, and the reply I received was not to, that there was a risk of frying the charger and batteries by using a generator or an inverter.
I might see where a modified sine wave inverter could be a problem, but have any of you used a generator or inverter to recharge lithium batteries?
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 18:54
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MtnDon
Thanks! Makes sense. The Matrix system has an impact driver attachment so that would be easy-peasy. Just take off the drill/driver section and put on the impact driver. Sounds like it would be worth it, with a small deck and some fencing in my future.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 19:06
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Quoting: bldginsp Sorry Julie I had too much coffee this morning.
LOL, no problem, my friend. I had a giggle over it. I know I regularly drive some folks nuts because I'm a "function over form" type of person. Mind you, I like things to function decently AND look good; if I can do something for $100 that serves me well in both ways for 10 years, I'm delighted. The chances are fair that I'd want to do something different with the space within or in about 10 years, anyway! 
When I watch those home flip shows on HGTV and see the well-off investors/flippers taking a sledgehammer to perfectly good cabinets and such simply because they're "dated" or the wrong color/size, I want to scream. Geez, someone could USE those and do something different and creative with them! Same with a lot of the materials they so callously, sometimes gleefully, destroy and throw away. Anyone can walk into a store and throw a lot of money at expensive materials to make a place look good. But I think it's more satisfying to utilize perfectly good "throwaways" to create something sound and special.
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Asher
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 21:42
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Be very careful when using a impact driver with small screws... My friend stopped over one day helping me replace my deck boards... he grabbed his Rigid impact driver and started helping secure boards... after breaking the heads off a couple screws I had to stop him and figure out what he was doing... We figured out that the impact pulses where to much for the shanks. After switching tools he didn't break another screw...
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 21:46 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: buckybuck I might see where a modified sine wave inverter could be a problem, but have any of you used a generator or inverter to recharge lithium batteries?
No issues using an inverter generator or a pure sine wave inverter in my experience. No guarantees with a modified sine wave inverter or non inverter generators and I have toasted a charger on a mod sine wave inverter. You have to remember that electrical devices that operate on 120 VAC are designed with the smooth power available off the grid. So they sometimes have issues with rougher power.
As for the brand and model, I have never looked into them. I'd have to research more to see if I thought using the one motor and different attachment "business" ends has been well executed. .... my conservative side showing....
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 22:48
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon When I watch those home flip shows on HGTV and see the well-off investors/flippers taking a sledgehammer to perfectly good cabinets and such simply because they're "dated" or the wrong color/size, I want to scream. Geez, someone could USE those and do something different and creative with them!
I couldn't agree more, but that sentiment is not very well engrained in our materialist society. In the Victorian era wealthy people would remodel their entire residence every 5-8 years or so to keep with the current fashion. They would gut the entire interior and start all over. Now, in the affluent suburbs around Silicon Valley, many of the tract homes built in the 60s thru 80s are being torn down to make way for McMansions, when the tract homes are in perfectly useable condition. Even though the Silicon Valley corporations vaunt their "cutting edge" practices, when they want a new corporate center they rip out perfectly useable buildings to replace them with something more prestigious, by contemporary standards, with no regard to the waste or carbon production involved. So, kudos to those willing to make better use of existing materials rather than throw them in the landfill and cause more new materials to be produced at whatever cost.
But I still refuse to build a deck out of pallets and fence boards. Something about that grates on my nerves. But maybe I'll change that thinking if I see such a deck, well made. All wooden decks are doomed from the day you build them, so what sense does it make to build them out of new materials? My deck will be stone and mortar.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 19 May 2016 23:07
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Quoting: buckybuck I might see where a modified sine wave inverter could be a problem, but have any of you used a generator or inverter to recharge lithium batteries?
I've charged a number of the Ryobi batteries from my modified sine wave inverter. I've not noticed any issues and the batteries seem to charge just fine. I suppose it is fair to say that not all modified sine waves are the same so a cheapy model might cause issues.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 20 May 2016 04:25
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Quoting: bldginsp But I still refuse to build a deck out of pallets and fence boards. Something about that grates on my nerves. But maybe I'll change that thinking if I see such a deck, well made.
Oh, I'm not talking about used fence boards! There's a dude in the area who sells dried, planed boards for fences at a buck each for the regular 5-foot ones and more for taller/wider. Douglas fir and cedar. He delivers if you buy $50 or more worth of boards.
Anyhoo, I've got the plans. You choose good pallets and prep them, connect them. The end up looking like floor joists, pretty much. Screw the boards onto them and boom. Wood deck. I think I'd stain the wood before fastening everything together so it was all sealed.
If I pondered a stone and mortar deck, there'd HAVE to be a moat and some sort of drawbridge. Maybe a portcullis somewhere. At a mudroom doorway? That would thwart burglars!
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Asher
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# Posted: 20 May 2016 07:41
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon My hope is that the B & D line lasts for decades similarly, is expanded, and not discontinued. I'm concerned about investing too much in a system like this, only to have it end and then not be able to find parts and batteries for it.
That's where Ryobi almost lost me, when they first came out I bought the their 12v system, about 1 month later they came out with their 14.4v system so after my 12v batteries crapped out I replaced my tools with the 14.4v, then shortly after that they came out with their 18v +1 design... so after my 14.4v batts dumped I replaced again.. it was almost like they where taunting me after every purchase... It seems like their 18v system is going to stick around for a while....
Side note: Some quick work with a small grinder and those 18v batteries can work in some of the old 14.4v tools...
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dsmith14469
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# Posted: 20 May 2016 08:00
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At amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Decker-L2AFCBST-Lithium-Charger-Charge/dp/B00A0TLH80/ref=sr_1_1 ?ie=UTF8&qid=1463745575&sr=8-1&keywords=matrix+charger
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