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Finch3024
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 13:54
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I am going to build a pole barn style cabin on family property in eastern ,ky that I am buying in May . Crime amongst the pill heads and druggies have spiked dramatically since there isn't any jobs where I am from. I will live 2 hours away and although this is where I grew up in the dead of the mountains all open land with no one around I am worried about my safety but, mostly the cabin I am building. I have looked at numerous topics on here and all is helpful. To sum it up what are the best options to include before I put my cabin there. Should I build the doors to all open outwardly instead of indwardly? Would thieves be able to take off the hinges though that way? What would the best windows be to place in? Ive read 3M makes a product that coats the window for smash ins. Any thoughts???? Are trail cameras effective???
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drb777
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 14:43
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Can't really say for your location, but for me I've had the best results by keeping my location somewhat unknown. Seems that everyone has break-in problems when their rural cabin or home is easily visible & accessible from the public roads. Mine is more than 1/2 mile from the road, and behind 2 usually locked gates. And I've made it a point not to publicize that it even exists. Of course, this isn't fool-proof, but so far so good.
I'm also a fan of the disc-type padlocks and thick cables. Regular padlocks are of no value since 2 wrenchs & a twist causes them to fall apart.
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Finch3024
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 15:18
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Everyone knows where are existing house is and is very visible from the remain road. I will be tearing down our old home place that is rotting down.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 15:20
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I agree with the above! Out of sight out of mind. If you are able to keep it not visible from the road I think that helps. Our driveway which is a few hundred yards in I have purposely kept rough but easily traversed by my jeep or truck with the mindset that anybody venturing down may think twice before they get too far. My gate at the end of the lane way is also made out of a downed tree so it looks natural and doesn't actually resemble a gate. I have had good luck over the years with break ins etc. Ultimately though if someone is desperate enough they will get in.
My neighbour uses reverse psychology and when he is there he keeps his gate closed and when he is not there he keeps it open thinking people will think he's there.
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Bexeler
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 17:55
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Do you have neighbors that are close that can keep an eye on things for you? You could also maybe put shutters on the windows that you can close and lock when not there. This will make it a little harder to break in but nothing will stop someone that wants to get in. All you can do is make it as hard as you can for them to get in and maybe they will just leave to go to an easier target.
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Kudzu
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 18:03
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I have been fortunate to not have mine broken into. My cabin is very visible from the road and I know some day a break-in will happen. I have a locked gate, but do not lock the doors of the cabin. I would rather they walk in than kick and smash in. I have tried my best to befriend the few locals that live close and have made a few friends. I never leave anything of great value, but there is plenty of stuff I would hate to lose.
I know this is kind of a ramble, but hope it helps you.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 19:28
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Deter, Delay, Detect, Deception
Deter: Lighting, Barking Dog
Delay: Steel Doors with Steel Jambs, Bars on Windows
Detect: Alarm System
Deception: Vehicles parked and occasionally moved
Most people help the threat by making a weak box.
All security measures are only 99% effective, but you can make it so difficult that they will have to pack a lunch.
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Rickkrus
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 20:30
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My "neighbor" he's couple miles away, stopped by and asked if I'd seen anyone around his cabin. I asked what they took and he said nothing but the place was cleaner than when he left.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 22:22
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Rikkrus- well wasn't that nice of them to clean up! Did they wash the windows?
Finch 3024- if you install out opening doors, you can get hinges with non-removeable pins. They are called NRP. I like the lockable shutter idea but that's going to be difficult. They make window security bars but they look ugly. Consider a steel container for storing tools and stuff when you are away. A 20 footer will cost you $1500-2500 plus delivery.
I have puck locks with hidden hasps on several of my sheds. On the cabin front door I have a steel screen/security door that looks okay and would be a bit difficult to get past.
Some thieves don't bother with breaking doors or windows, they just use a chainsaw to cut the wall. But if you put a layer of chicken wire in the wall, the chain saw will get screwed up before it cuts a hole large enough.
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KinAlberta
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 22:24 - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Hinge pins?
- Consider ball bearing butt hinges for commercial doors
- consider a pin in the hinge face that will set into the other face when the door is closed ( there are replacement screws that do this too)
- consider a full length hinge (like a big piano hinge)
Windows / glass coatings
- they are very string and can even be bullet proof
- I have a clear polyester coating on my home's exterior doors' glass inserts. The problem with it on tempered glass is that they can pound their way in. It apparently caves in and thus pulls out of the frame. Plate glass of normal glass tends to break in larger pieces and so better stays in place.
Door locks
Reinforce the frames and/or add those metal deadbolt boxes that fit into the frame. I'd also build better stronger door frames myself. Of course, all metal would be nice but looks ugly and seldom has glass inserts.
You can also get interior latches (guardian? Brand) for the door you aren't using and for added security when staying there.
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Asher
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 23:32
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If you are dead set on getting into this, you might consider looking at container house options... I'm not saying containers are the best start for housing options, but they do offer a ton of security... I don't know what your end goal or budget is.. You might consider going with (2) 40ft containers for sides and (2) 20ft containers for ends. Weld all the doors up except one set.. Then make a second story as the living area with windows, etc.
I understand you want to get back to your roots, but I would struggle ever being happy always worrying about theft while I wasn't there or cleaning up the mess when I showed up.
My dad use to have a river cabin, every time we went there we had to deal with a broken door or mess left behind, he eventually just left the doors unlocked... I was a young teenager then and it still seemed like an exhausting way to have a relaxing weekend...
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Finch3024
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2017 23:56
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Thank you all these tips are very helpful !
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2017 00:33
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Quoting: Rickkrus My "neighbor" he's couple miles away, stopped by and asked if I'd seen anyone around his cabin. I asked what they took and he said nothing but the place was cleaner than when he left.
too funny
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Finch3024
Member
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2017 02:50
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Excellent ideas
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Malamute
Member
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2017 13:37 - Edited by: Malamute
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Game cameras can be stolen. They can give pictures of anyone that has come through, but if they find and take them, it doesn't help you.
If theres a phone line or internet access, you can use an alarms system that give you a text or email instantly, and allow you to log in on a computer or smart phone and see in real time whats going on. Some, like the doorbell cameras, allow you to talk to someone that may be at the door, and they wouldn't know if you were there or not.
Ive made functional shutters, its not that difficult. I used the wide steel gate hinges with long steel straps and heavy threaded hinges into the 3x12 frames/jambs, and hasps and padlocks on the outside when locked.
I used this type hinge and straps,
http://wedo.hillmangroup.com/viewitems/gate/zinc-plated-gate-screw-hooks
http://wedo.hillmangroup.com/viewitems/gate/zinc-plated-gate-hinge-straps
I used the longest straps that fit on the shutters, and carriage bolts, so theres nothing exposed on the outside when closed. I also used barrel bolts to lock the first side closed and firm up the whole thing. The shutters fit inside the frames/jambs when closed. This requires rather thick frames, though Ive done it on "regular" windows also. Care must be taken that the bolts don't hit the window when closed. I put small hooks and eyes on them to hold them open, and to hold them closed while getting locked, or just for weather events.
A heavy enough door and frame can reduce the chance someone will get in. Also, the microscopic size screws most door hardware come with, hinges and latch/deadbolt parts are a joke. They only go into the thin jamb material. 3" or slightly longer reduces the chance that a kick in will be successful. Not having a window in the door, and none within reaching distance of the door knob also reduces the chance someone can easily get in. I build doors from rough cut 2x8 pine, I spline the edges and rip splines, caulk the joints when assembling, and use 2x6 cross bars and a diagonal brace. All the hardware is 3/8" carriage bolts with 3 heavy T hinges inside. I measure the opening and rip the door boards to they are all the same width (leave 1/2" or more for the edges for room to open it), and leave a small square window opening. In my case, theres nothing much to be gained by breaking that window when its left locked with a heavy hasp and padlock on the outside. Frames are 3x12 planks, spiked, log screwed or otherwise heavily attached to the walls (log in my case). I don't know of a sledge hammer would get in, if it would, it would take serious work.
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silverwaterlady
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2017 11:05
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All the above info is great.
If it is that unsafe I would think about getting a German Shepard from a breeder that was either trained in personal protection (EXPENSIVE) or trained with the help of professionals by yourself (my route).
This dog is going to hear and smell bad people coming long before you do.
Since you are in the USA you can also get a permit, a handgun and training. I unfortunately cannot protect myself on my own property this way because it's in Canada.
If you get that dog post Warning Guard Dog signs. Post No Trespassing signs in the meantime. There are some companies Online that sell the heavy duty aluminum signs that will last years. You can also have them custom made with wording that works for your particular situation.
Carry your cell phone when you walk your property. If you come across people trespassing make sure you get a video of them trespassing and you calmly and politely telling them to leave. If they refuse call 911 and report them.
Be careful of who you invite to your property. The more people there the better chance you have of somebody coming back when you are not there to do damage. Even somebody you trust can be a backstabber ( our current situation).
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SE Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2017 16:31
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If you have electric or use a battery, plus have cell coverage at your property, consider this:
https://shop.straighttalk.com/shop/en/straighttalk/homealerts
You can set up a motion detector indoors or door/window contacts that will trigger your alarm and call/text you. I run this system off battery power. I had a break in and burglar set off alarm and left immediately. I was only out $ for window glass (not that I keep expensive items there, I don't).
Also, there is a long running thread on cabin security: http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/1_75_15.html#msg102903
Lots of tips and experiences there.
SE Ohio
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moneypitfeeder
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2017 23:59 - Edited by: moneypitfeeder
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If you put screens/storms in, make sure they aren't aluminum framed, those are apparently prime targets for stealing. If you need to run any copper lines (even the small 1/4 in flex for gas, on the outside make a black iron manifold, and switch to copper in the cabin. (If there is any copper line run outside of the walls but inside the cabin paint it black, i.e. if you have lines to propane lights etc.) Crank out windows are harder to break into vs lift sashes. But as been said b4, if your house is too hard to get in, they might just cut through the sidewalls. If you are able to be there often enough, leave enough (worthless to thieves) items, about. Maybe a pair of flip flops at the back door, potted (healthy looking) plants, radio turned on inside and powered by an inconspicuous solar panel. I put in cheap roller blinds on most of the windows and pull them closed so people can't look in to see if someone is there. If you have the ability to go there often, just driving in, and having fresh tire tracks can be a deterrent. And everything else that has already been mentioned here, all great responses.
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95XL883
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 00:16
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Quoting: silverwaterlady If it is that unsafe I would think about getting a German Shepard from a breeder that was either trained in personal protection (EXPENSIVE) or trained with the help of professionals by yourself (my route). This dog is going to hear and smell bad people coming long before you do.
Just a reaction to the German Shepherd recommendation.
I have one. For me she is an absolutely great dog. Very loving, very well behaved, very loyal and very alert. But, and it is a significant but, it takes a firm (not harsh), consistent hand. They are active dogs and require daily exercise and constant socialization. They are not for everybody. They are big, they shed constantly and twice a year really "blow coat", they are highly intelligent and get bored easily (a bored German Shepherd can be very destructive), they need to be part of a family indoors, they will test your resolve to have them behave properly (Mine likes walks up to a point and then tries to dictate where and how far we go.), they scare people, they can have a high prey drive and be intolerant of other dogs, cats and small children. Properly handled those are very manageable. Improperly handled and the dog will be very problematic. They require a fair amount of food and we have ours on flea, tick and heartworm preventive treatment year round. (I have heard treating a dog with heartworm is expensive, i.e., about a $1,000.)
You don't have to buy from a breeder and I would suggest you don't. Find a German Shepherd rescue group in your area. Good ones will match your temperament with the dogs. And yes different German Shepherds have different temperaments. A few can be relatively laid back, most are relatively high energy and really need to be with a human most of the day. Some are true working dogs and require mass amounts of exercise and mental stimulation.
And I would suggest you stay away from very young (less than a year and really less than a year and a half) dogs. They are really headstrong and high-energy at that young age. In fact, that is how we got ours. The original owner paid big dollars to a breeder and got her as a puppy. They paid $1,600 for professional training. But they apparently didn't follow through on their obligation to keep the animal trained. After a year, they dumped her at the trainer's. The trainer had her about five months before we came across her. (Apparently they had to work through serious issues with her before she was adoptable.) She is a wonderful dog, we are constantly told how beautiful she is and that she is the best behaved dog people have ever seen but she has a high prey drive and would probably kill any animal smaller than her if we let her. We constantly work with her on that but I don't think we will ever eliminate that urge. (She will tolerate other dogs with a proper introduction but a small off-leash dog approaching is a big concern.) The adoption fee was $300 and we got a year's support, a remote training collar (worth every penny if you have to buy one), bean bags, a whistle, a spray bottle and the trainer's own book and dvd.
Dogs are great but they are commitment. If you do get one, please consider a rescue. A good rescue org will try hard to match temperaments. Good luck.
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silverwaterlady
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 11:04
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TY for the above comment.
I'm retired and my kids are grown so I have plenty of time to spend training and being a companion.
I agree that recuse dogs are wonderful. They are all we've ever had at our home but I want to start off with a puppy and train it myself and socialize it so it doesn't take off on other people or pets. I want a good bloodline and health history because not only am I looking for a companion but a protector since legally at our cabin in Canada I cannot protect myself as I could in the USA.
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 15:23 - Edited by: Jebediah
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I couldn't make it to my cottage during the winter due to an illness. I was absent for a month, with snow building up they know you are not there, they come in during a storm early in the morning...Nothing will stop them. These guys use Google to scan all the lakes and look for remote places. One look and they know, its an easy target. Its one thing to break in but to trash a place is another.....Just a few pics. I had roofers in last summer and the RCMP told me two of the young guys on the crew where known to the police. They fired off one of the extinguishers, what a mess.
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silverwaterlady
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 15:39
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Awful to see. So sorry this happened to you Jebediah.
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manny
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 16:56
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So so sorry Jeb. The bastards.Had mine broken into also.
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KinAlberta
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 21:13
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Consider getting a smaller shipping container and building your cabin around it.
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moneypitfeeder
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 23:07
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So sorry Jebediah, when my cabin was broken into, I think we lucked out. My neighbors had their wall cut into to gain entrance, but they found one of our windows they could remove and climb in. They did take everything they could get money for, but were considerate enough not to trash the place. They even set my glass propane globes in a row on the table unbroken (yet they pulled the copper lines out of the panel walls). Stinks all the same, while we were not out much financially, it still wasted days out of our next trip to run new gas lines and get new pot pans etc.
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Finch3024
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 23:15
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So sorry this happened to you that's so violating
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Finch3024
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 23:26
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Malamute
The doors hinges and clasps are what it sounds like i need. Thank you
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Finch3024
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 23:30
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Thank your for the info on the hinges cLASPS AND DOORS VERY HELPFUL
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KinAlberta
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2017 09:03
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You can buy long steel flat bars with a square hole in it. These fit into the frame. The deadbolt goes into it the square hole.
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