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Bobbler
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# Posted: 22 Jul 2020 18:01
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Hello Everyone
I hope I can explain my problem properly
I recently purchased a off grid cabin in northern Quebec
It is fully wired with a two 15 amp breaker box and run off a 110v Champion 3500 gen here is where I get a bit lost the wire coming from gen is a standard 110 v extension cord that goes int a 4 wire 220v cord that is connected to the double 15a breaker box they tied the black and red from box to black from gen the white is tied to white and green to ground from gen there is no ground pin on plug the goes to generator (not sure if that was done on purpose) I understand this was to power both breakers but white is then tied to neutral bar as is the ground (green) then to ground rod
Everything works fine
Now I want to run solar part time so I basically ran the same set up from my inverter back to box and split the black wire to feed each breaker
My question is should I disconnect the ground prong from my inverted so my ground is not hot or will it be?
I know that if either gen or inverter is live the plug on either end will also be live I will install a shut off or transfer switch the remedy this
Sorry for long post and hope I explained my situation correctly
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 09:21
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Ground (round pin on generstor) should be the case of the breaker box and ground out to every outlet along with a ground rod driven in the ground either at the generator or the breaker box.
Black and red tied together just makes the extension cord 120v.
Usualy ground is green or bare copper/alum
Black/red is power
White is neutral.
What does the inside of your breaker box look like?
What's the generator not doing that it should be?
Also I wouldnt use that wire like shown outside, it's a shock hazard with no box and no weather proofing. For just a 120v 15a setup like you have with only two breakers I would loose the romex and put that plug directly on the flexible wire.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 09:36
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O and you want to ground everything. No ground should be hot.
I think after reading it a few times I better understand what your asking.
Use the flexible black wire as if it's a 120v extension cord and tie the positive wires together for your breakers in the box. Not at the generator or plug.
A very simple way to do what your trying to do with a generator and inverter is to make the cabin have a Male plug. When you want inverter power you plug that plug into the inverter. When you want generator you plug that plug into the generator. The generator side could be a duplex outlet that runs outside to your generator.
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morock
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 10:27
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I agree with Brettny and that is what I did. Two separate receptacles, one for generator power, one for solar. Then plug into the source you want, never any question and no chance of two sources coming together.
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mj1angier
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 10:50
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If you had some $ to spend on it, an inverter/charger would be a better solution. Both batteries and genny are hooked to it and it does the switching for you. Also it will charge batteries if all the power from generator is not needed to supply house.
Here is my set up. Cleaned it up and put a cabinet around it since photo was taken
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 13:10
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Theres also inverters that have an automatic transfer switch. So once they sence 120v inthey shut off the power being used from the batteries.
A 55a RV inboard charger is about $120.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 14:33
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Another thing I see... there should be 2 busbars in the breaker box, one for the commons and one for the grounds. You should not hook your ground lead into the same busbar the commons are hooked into. (Years ago this was not uncommon but would not pass code today.... and is unsafe.)
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 15:23 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: Nobadays You should not hook your ground lead into the same busbar the commons are hooked into
That information is not correct.
The NEC demands there be a single connection between the neutral (white) buss and the ground (green or bare) buss. This is a safety issue. That bonding is usually done in the main service panel using a green screw located in the neutral buss. When this bonding screw is screwed down tight the neutral and ground are "bonded" or connected together.
It is important there be only one such bond in a system. If there is a main panel and 1 or more subpanels, only the main should have the bond.
All bets are off when you get to generators and inverters.
Some generators have an internally bonded neutral and others use a floating or non-bonded neutral. Same with inverters.
Many inverters, usually those with power outlets built into them, have an internal bonded neutral. Inverters that must be hard wired (no built in outlet) usually have no internal bond, bonding is expected to be in the service panel.
Consumer oriented generators (like Honda EU series) most often use a floating bond as they expect the bond to be someplace else. Generators aimed at the contractor market usually have aninternal neutral ground bond. There is no hard and fast rule though.
If you have one of those three light plug in electric circuit testers it can show how the generator is configured. Plug it in and if the tester shows open ground there is no bond, the ground is floating.
An inverter with a built in outlet will most often blow up (lose the magic smoke) if connected to a bonded service panel and powered up.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 22:16
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ICC.... Thank you for setting this straight. I am wrong.... I was told this couldn't be done but it was on a sub panel. I assumed all panels, big mistake. Thank you!
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 22:41
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 . The electrical code has lots of rules with a good number of "buts" ....hard to keep track
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2020 07:36
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Bobbler if you dont own a DVOM I suggest getting one. Just learning a few functions on it can really save time and safety when playing with electrical things.
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Bobbler
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2020 19:19
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Thank You all for you information it was very helpful the camp was prewired before I bought it so I was coming in new the breaker box on has two 15 amp breakers it was originally wired for 220 but the gentleman only had a Gen with 110 so it was modified I just was confused by the fact that ground and neutral were connected in panel so when I wire my inverted I suspected the ground would be hot
I now had someone with more experience look at it it seems to be working fine hope to have solar hooked up next weekend
More pictures to come
Thanks again everyone
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