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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 08:15
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I was at two cabins recently and both of them had LP SmartSide siding on their places. I thought they both looked great, and seems like a more cost effective alternative to traditional sheathing + corrugated steel. Both of their places were only 8' eave walls, so the only place they had horizontal seams were on the gable ends and it looked like they had a simple drip cap between the sheets.
I'm still leaning towards 10' balloon framed eave walls. So my question is, what is the best way to do my horizontal seams so that visually it looks the best? Do i put it at 8' and then have a ~2' piece above it that goes up to the roof, do i put 2' on bottom and the 8' on top, or some other mixture? Their instructions have some elaborate beltline joint for 2 story applications. Even if i moved this down to waist level for a chair rail type look, i don't think it visually would look that great.
How have you handled window installs? My assumption was build the wall laying down, put house wrap on either while laying down or after it's upright. Then i assumed i would install the windows properly flashing it with tape. Then install the siding. However, their instruction illustration on page 4 seems like they leave a pretty large gap between the window frame and the cut edge of the siding. It actually almost looks like the window could be installed after the siding was on with enough room for the nailing flange. My concern here is that cutting the siding that far back doesn't leave any studding behind the siding to nail it in. Mostly at the sill as there will be the header above and the doubled up jack/king on the sides but the sill is usually only 1 stud width.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 11:17
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I don't think smartside is thick or rigid enough to use as a siding and sheathing product in one. I know people do it, that is on sheds. If your going to go that route, at least put some Densglass sheathing on before the smartside. It will help make the structure more rigid overall.
Windows should have 4.5 inches of wood on each side. A king stud supporting a top plate, a trimmer supporting a header, and a cripple supporting a sill plate. You should have plenty of room to have trim and enough nailing surface for the smartside.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 12:20
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I guess i wouldn't be biased to the SmartSide vs. T1-11...only advantage i really saw was that SmartSide is pre-primed.
Quoting: snobdds Windows should have 4.5 inches of wood on each side. A king stud supporting a top plate, a trimmer supporting a header, and a cripple supporting a sill plate.
Wouldn't there only be 3" on either side, 1.5"+header width on the top and the bottom sill would only be 1.5"?
Also, it says SmartSide is structurally rated.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 12:30
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After having remodeled our late 1880's school-house to home with windows 2x in 35yrs, building one cabin '83-84 and now replacing junk poorly done windows in the current cabin I vote for leaving the siding far enough away that you have room to get at the window flange And seal/drip edge and cover all that with outside trim.
It is miserable having to pull siding to pull/replace a window.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 12:41
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Quoting: WILL1E it says SmartSide is structurally rated.
Yes some of their panels are structurally rated. Not all. It is code approved for building residences in the manner illustrated.
That does not make it a really good construction method. The 4x8 panels have their place, IMO, for sheds, barns.... As you noticed, when it comes to installing windows and doors a single layer wall like the 4x8 smartside panels gets to be more troublesome than traditional stick building where the wall structure is first sheathed. Then weather protected with much better weather-proofing, then a final covering which is mostly cosmetic.
As for the number of studs framing a window, code again has "shortcuts" or cost-cutting methods available if you will. To my mind it depends a bit on the size/weight of the window. There can be a trade off between more studs as in traditional framing or yhe alternatives with fewer studs. With fewer studs the more insulation can be fitted in the wall cavities.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 14:46
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I know we arnt talking about T1 11 here but I have a garage that the horizontal seam is completely rotted. It had Z flashing and a horizontal 1x3 trim.
If you need to do a seam I would overlap the top and fur it out the thickness of the pannel and paint/stain. This way no water can be trapped.
Thinking a bit out of the box you can use a different type of siding at the top like an accent. Maybe cedar shakes or really anything else.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 15:57
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Quoting: Brettny the horizontal seam is completely rotted. It had Z flashing and a horizontal 1x3 trim.
Any pictures of your situation? Just wondering what about your particular install could have been done differently to avoid the issues?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 17:14
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The most common Z-flashing error is to have the bottom edge of the upper panel resting on the metal. The must be a free gap and no caulk in the space.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2021 22:02
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Quoting: WILL1E I'm still leaning towards 10' balloon framed eave walls. So my question is, what is the best way to do my horizontal seams so that visually it looks the best? Do i put it at 8' and then have a ~2' piece above it that goes up to the roof,
Dude, you can order your siding in any length you want, will you have a rim joist over a footer stemwall foundation? So if you do, you get 9 foot stuff for an 8 foot wall, if you have 10 foot walls, get it in 11 feet long. You need to special order it. Oh, its not cheap, well, no siding is cheap right now. This give to the full strength you want bsides vs having a break, seam and Z flashing with looks awful. Its fine of the break is on a gable end right on the floor line, which ties the wall to floor rim joist, otherwise, it looks dorky.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2021 07:09 - Edited by: Brettny
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Quoting: ICC The most common Z-flashing error is to have the bottom edge of the upper panel resting on the metal. The must be a free gap and no caulk in the space.
This is prob what happen. The place was about 15yrs old before I bought it so not totally sure. Either way if you put a 1x3 around the seam for a "trim board" it's going to rot behind it no matter how much you cawlk, paint it. The same is happening above my garage door trim. Having at least 12in gabel end over hangs really helps, something this siding didnt have for 20yrs. T1-11 is also nearly impossible to scrape and repaint so pick your coatings on how easy it is to re apply..stain it.
My fix for my rotting T-11 is going to be vinyl siding.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2021 08:42
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Rotting at the edges of a single layer outer skin, likr t1-11 or smartside, also robs the wall of a lot of shear strength. Another reason I do not like this type of wall.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 1 Sep 2021 17:06
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Quoting: WILL1E Wouldn't there only be 3" on either side, 1.5"+header width on the top and the bottom sill would only be 1.5"
I always make my header 6 inches wider than the rough opening. This allows me to put an extra cripple stud in for the rough opening. I have saved a lot of frustration being able to modify the extra cripple stud if the window or door was measured off a bit. It's a lot easier to modify a cripple stud than to send back a window or door because the RO was not right.
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