Using unconventional thin lumber to build a cabin

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Small Cabin Forum / Cabin Construction / Using unconventional thin lumber to build a cabin


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Heyd Member	# Posted: 19 Jan 2024 20:33 - Edited by: Heyd Reply https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o0CnXxN43_8 Tell me what you think of this man's idea. By simply adding additional supports, a cabin could made from ultra-lightweight, thin dimension lumber. A 2x4 could be turned in to two boards. And by increasing the width of the lumber, i.e. using 0.5Ã—6" boards instead of 2x4s, we could also increase the volume of insulation in the cabin. This is especially relevant for those who have access to old growth trees and can rive their own boards from a log with a froe and an axe. This would be a great way to bypass the skyrocketing price of lumber. Additionally, shorter pieces lumber could be jointed together, allowing for even more economy. I often wonder why we build stuff with 2x4s when they're really way too much wood for a small structure. Thinner lumber could be used if reinforced.

spencerin Member	# Posted: 19 Jan 2024 22:32 Reply Seems too flimsy to me. Good idea in concept, yes. Maybe not too good in practice.

Heyd Member	# Posted: 19 Jan 2024 23:27 Reply I believe the walls could be made sturdier with additional reinforcement; he used minmal diagonal stabilizers here.

paulz Member	# Posted: 19 Jan 2024 23:55 Reply I'm lucky to hit a 2 by with a nail. .

Heyd Member	# Posted: 20 Jan 2024 05:03 Reply For anyone who has doubts -- try to imagine a yurt. It starts off as a flimsy pile of sticks but is stabilized by the tension of being tied together with bands. A yurt can withstand hurricane force winds once it's tightened up and wrapped with wool felt.

MJH Member	# Posted: 20 Jan 2024 08:51 Reply Quoting: Heyd A yurt can withstand hurricane force winds once it's tightened up and wrapped with wool felt It might work for winds but where I'm at I'm more worried about 150 year old oak trees and 100 ft white pine falling on the place. This is a little too light for my taste.

gcrank1 Member	# Posted: 20 Jan 2024 09:50 Reply The RV industry for decades has been building with the thinnest and lightest (and often cheapest) materials possible. Having had a couple RV's that does not inspire confidence with me, even though lots of folks have lived in 'trailers'. Other primitive shelters have used thin and light materials 'under tension'; ie a wickiup, and been livable, in the right environment. No doubt it can work, and be expedient for a shelter for a while....but imo it will always be a 'shack'.

ICC Member	# Posted: 20 Jan 2024 13:52 Reply Quoting: Heyd A 2x4 could be turned in to two boards. True. However a stud grade 2x4 is permitted to have knots and other defects. Once ripped in half some of those defects that were of little consequence in a full 2x4 size will become serious strength reducing defects in the thinner pieces. And buying a clear knot free 1x will cost more than a stud grade 2x4. Quoting: Heyd Additionally, shorter pieces lumber could be jointed together, allowing for even more economy. This is done by lumber companies but is only good for stud grade use. They use finger joints which are okay for vertical loads (studs) but not for any other structural use. The finger jpints are stronger than any DIY method I can think of. Quoting: Heyd ...rive their own boards from a log with a froe and an axe. Seriously? To hand hew a beam is much work, but to use a froe and axe to make planks or boards is sorta crazy especially because we do want to end up with lumber that is more or less evenly sized, don't we? That makes framing and finishing much easier. We have used our own trees to turn out everything from large beams to 1x-boards for several generations. It is hard enough work with engine driven sawmills and mechanized equipment to move the trees to the mill. Good luck making boards by hand. Quoting: paulz I'm lucky to hit a 2 by with a nail. . Paul is not alone on that. The edge of a 1x could be easily just enough off center to cause the 1x to split. Quoting: Heyd I often wonder why we build stuff with 2x4s Paul's comment above, is one reason. Another is that a 2x4 has strength that enables use to build a wall that will safely handle vertical loads from a second floor above as well as heavy snow loads. They allow us to cut openings for large heavy windows and double patio doors and, with proper headers, still support roof loads. 2x wall studs also make it simple to safely hang heavy cabinets on the walls. 2x walls also allow installation of heavy cement fiber fire resistant exterior siding Quoting: Heyd I believe the walls could be made sturdier with additional reinforcement; he used minmal diagonal stabilizers here Most walls do not need any diagonal bracing. The anti-racking strength usually comes from 7/16" or thicker 4x8 panels properly secured to the exterior. In the video, what appear to be drywall screws are not suitable fasteners. The panels used as sheathing in the video are too thin. They will provide very little impact resistance. Quoting: MJH It might work for winds but where I'm at I'm more worried about 150 year old oak trees and 100 ft white pine falling on the place. Absolutely. I want my walls to offer "shelter from the storm". I want imapct resistance. Trees and tree limbs are often downed by winds and snow and ice loads. A large tree is still going to cause damage if one falls an a typical house. However, I would rather not take my chances in something built as shown in the video. Quoting: Heyd try to imagine a yurt. It starts off as a flimsy pile of sticks but is stabilized by the tension of being tied together with bands. It is unfair to compare a circular yurt to a square or rectangular box. A cylinder shape is inherently stronger than a box. I did not search the youtubers library of DIY stuff, but I do wonder what sort of a roof structure he has built on that wall framing. Quoting: gcrank1 The RV industry for decades has been building with the thinnest and lightest I won't get into that, but I do agree... FWIW, I built a light wood framed teardrop trailer back in the 70's. 1x2 and 2x2 framing with 1/4" plywood walls over 1" xps foam. Hail damaged it twice in the Rockies. -izzy

Heyd Member	# Posted: 21 Jan 2024 05:08 Reply Quoting: ICC This is done by lumber companies but is only good for stud grade use. They use finger joints which are okay for vertical loads (studs) but not for any other structural use. The finger jpints are stronger than any DIY method I can think of. I'm pretty sure a glued scarf joint wrapped with spiraling fiberglass cloth would be stronger. Quoting: ICC Seriously? To hand hew a beam is much work, but to use a froe and axe to make planks or boards is sorta crazy especially because we do want to end up with lumber that is more or less evenly sized, don't we? That makes framing and finishing much easier. Yes I didn't mention the trimming and planing process which is fairly easy for me. I have access to old growth cedar and maple which are straight grained, split, trim and plane very easily. With a sharp axe and the right wood, making boards by splitting is much less energy intensive than hewing or sawing. Quoting: ICC Paul's comment above, is one reason. Another is that a 2x4 has strength that enables use to build a wall that will safely handle vertical loads from a second floor above as well as heavy snow loads. They allow us to cut openings for large heavy windows and double patio doors and, with proper headers, still support roof loads. Key words here are "heavy". I hate heavy stuff. I'd never have any of this gargoylic shit. But I still think you can make a wall just as sturdy using more reinforcement. Think like the original WTC Twin Towers -- using thinner materials than most other buildings at the time but with more reinforcement. Quoting: ICC Most walls do not need any diagonal bracing. The anti-racking strength usually comes from 7/16" or thicker 4x8 panels properly secured to the exterior. In the video, what appear to be drywall screws are not suitable fasteners. The panels used as sheathing in the video are too thin. They will provide very little impact resistance. Probably true but you can always just clear the area of any trees. Quoting: ICC It is unfair to compare a circular yurt to a square or rectangular box. A cylinder shape is inherently stronger than a box. I did not search the youtubers library of DIY stuff, but I do wonder what sort of a roof structure he has built on that wall framing. Good point. However, the yurt is still ultimately made up of twigs that are made sturdy. A cabin like this would have nowhere near the wind resistance of a yurt, but it could nevertheless be made stable. I wouldn't want one in a windy state like South Dakota, but it might not be a problem in Vermont. Quoting: ICC . However a stud grade 2x4 is permitted to have knots and other defects. Once ripped in half some of those defects that were of little consequence in a full 2x4 size will become serious strength reducing defects in the thinner pieces. And buying a clear knot free 1x will cost more than a stud grade 2x4. A good point, however if we make our frame using a lot of joints, we could cut from these boards sections that have only small knots, and use them in the critical areas of the wall. Luckily for me I have mostly knot free old growth trees for board making.

Heyd Member	# Posted: 21 Jan 2024 05:14 Reply Quoting: MJH It might work for winds but where I'm at I'm more worried about 150 year old oak trees and 100 ft white pine falling on the place. This is a little too light for my taste. There ain't no way in heck I'd build any structure near trees that big. Those babies would be getting chainsawed and split in to beautiful boards (pine) or turned in to firewood (oak).

spencerin Member	# Posted: 21 Jan 2024 22:02 - Edited by: spencerin Reply If you're building a 12 x 12, the savings will be minimal over such a small structure, and you'd be sacrificing the structural integrity of it in the process. If you want to save money, which isn't a bad thing, then maybe try 24" OC walls and roof with 2 x 4s, or 2 x 6s if you want to maximize insulation space.

toyota_mdt_tech Member	# Posted: 22 Jan 2024 15:59 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech Reply I know a guy who build a portable hunting cabin, 16X6, walls where in 8 foot panels. He made those out of 2X3 which you can buy at lumber store and trimmed them off a foot at 80 5/8" and used 3/8 T1-11 sheeting. He hauled it all on a flatbed trailer, roof was a canvas. He did it to lighten it up. I knew 2 people who did this. One could use the same principle to build a pre fabbed cabin at home using this method too. Build full floor ahead of time, bang out walls, tie in with full top plate.

gcrank1 Member	# Posted: 22 Jan 2024 16:33 Reply That brings to mind that there are LOTS of homebuilt 'ice shanties' up here in WI. Im sure there are vids on doing such. Some are 'knock down', others stay together but since they are made to get out onto the ice they are made light.