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utherjorge
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2026 02:40pm
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Good afternoon! Great progress has been made with my 12x16 cabin build, as I stage materials for building shenanigans as the weather improves.
I'd like to share my HVAC ideas/plans so I can be told I'm a buffoon if I'm way off base. I continue to appreciate all of the great help I've been given. Also, while I have reliable electric at my spot, I also want to be able to be comfy when electric ain't so good.
1. Diesel heater: I have one already that seems to work fine, and I have a pop-up on the property, so simply running a duct off of the 5kw seems like a decent way to handle heat.
2. Some sort of cooling with heat pump: I haven't settled on a mini-split or through-wall unit, but definitely do not want a window unit. Obvs won't work without electricity, but I assume about any 6k BTU unit would handle the small space fine.
3. Small pellet stove. On the fence with electric or gravity fed, but as the diesel unit might cover the pop-up, having such a set up is in my thinking as well.
Not interested in a straight-up wood stove as the small interior means a small stove that would need re-stocked often.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this, folks.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2026 03:04pm
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A wood stove takes up a LOT of footprint in a small space! The stove itself not so much but the safety clearances and a class A stack clearances add up quick.
If you have good cross ventilation and ceiling/roof insulation to avoid heat stacking inside, and a fan, you may not need 'ac'. That's what we found out, anyway, ymmv.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2026 03:21pm
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I can maybe comment on the heat pump. We have a 16X28 with a loft.
3 years ago we installed a 12K BTU mini split. It keeps the building cool in the summer and would freeze you out if you put it on the highest setting. We have only used it for heat a few times since we have a wood stove, but it worked fine even down to -20C (0f). As we are fully off-grid I was worried about power draw, but it hasn't been an issue. It draws between 800-1200W in cool mode depending on the state of the building.
I will say that our cabin is VERY well insulated though. It has new modern windows, 2X6 walls with batt and is super well sealed. This definitely affects how easily the heat pump cools it.
I thought about a pellet stove, but was also worried about power. After seeing the cost of pellets, that also changed my mine (I have 160 acres of bush to cut wood from for free).
Good luck, I don't see anything crazy in your plans! The diesel heater is interesting. Up here, they are pretty expensive to run (diesel isn't cheap here). However, if you are only at the cabin occasionally its probably not a big deal (and pretty convenient).
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philpom
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2026 03:37pm
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Seems like a pretty solid plan, I think 6000 btu should work well for you, I use a single 6000 btu window shaker to cool the first floor of our 16x24, another for upstairs. One day I'll upgrade to a dual zone mini-split. We can see Temps in the mid 90s in the summer.
Are you talking about running a duct from a popup camper over to the cabin? Not exactly following that piece of your plan. I'd like to have dedicated heat for flexibility.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2026 07:01pm
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Our cabin has only a wood stove and a coal stove for heat, but we're only there a few days at a time in the winter. No A/C, under the trees on the mountainside we really don't need it; fans suffice.
Our house is heated solely by three direct vent propane heaters and I love them... silent, efficient, and require no electricity. The one in the living room is a "fireplace" with fake logs and all, the other two in the bedrooms are compact wall mount units.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2026 07:22pm
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What brand(s) are those FM?
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utherjorge
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 08:36am
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gcrank: I always appreciate your insight.
Agreed about how much space they take up. I have "budgeted" for a place to include one, but I do worry about this. Of course, in my original post, I included nothing that would truly help me off grid if power was out. Trees do wipe out power where this will be located, and recently, it was days before power could be restored. I'm wondering if a small pellet stove (I'm going to be able to be on grid or solar powered) would still be ok.
travellerw: Thanks for the insight. With the size of this spot, 8k BTU should work, and smaller holes with a mini split makes me hypthetically happier than a large hole in the wall for a wall unit. I have been planning on sliding windows, so a portable unit could work, I suppose, as well.
I have the diesel heater already, and it's portable, so I can have it for the pop-up or for the cabin as needed. I won't be at the cabin as much in the winter at this time (not yet retired) but simply throwing it out there and connecting to a duct for the cabin should be easy to do so. Agreed about cost overall, though.
philpom: only heating one space at a time, but if I use the pop-up, I pop it in there. If not, it's in storage. If I used both spaces, I'd have to see where the diesel goes, but likely for the pop up while the cabin used whatever else I have going on.
fanman: I didn't mean to ignore propane direct heaters, which of course can be done without power. How do you manage moisture that the propane vents off? I'm interested.
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philpom
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 08:47am
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Quoting: utherjorge only heating one space at a time, but if I use the pop-up, I pop it in there. If not, it's in storage. If I used both spaces, I'd have to see where the diesel goes, but likely for the pop up while the cabin used whatever else I have going on.
Gotcha, makes perfect sense.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 09:01am
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Last spring I put a 12k btu mini split in our 20x24 2 story cabin. We are in central NY so not super hot but very very humid. Having AC made our cabin useable in the summer months and would do it again in a heart beat. I bought the cheapest 120v 12k btu I could find. Costway was the brand. I would have liked a 18k btu but there only 240v and we dont have acess to that being off grid. I will say that once the cabin in cooled down the unit uses about 300w to maintain.
In the winter I have started the mini split and the wood stove at the same time. In about 20-30min the wood stove was pumping out so much heat that I just turned off the mini split. It does take alot of BTUs to bring a building up in temp by 40-50* having fans blowing helps too.
I did the mini split install my self. Buying the tolls cost about $250. About 1/4 the cost of paying someone to install it. I have also since installed one in a cottage at my full time home.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 09:57am - Edited by: jsahara24
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I have a 16x24 cabin on my farm that I heated with an 8kw diesel heater. My biggest complaint was the fuel tank was only 1 gallon, so I got a pickup line and started hooking it up directly to 5 gallon jugs. This was a game changer and allowed me to heat the place for about 4 days under normal temps. I also have a place near me that I can buy off road diesel for 2.70$/gallon.
But once it got cold cold, it was unable to keep up. I don't think you'll have that problem with your size cabin. I would recommend getting one that has a remote thermostat that you can put inside your cabin.
I then added a stand alone Regency propane stove, direct vent. Its actually too much heat even on low unless its really cold, so now I'm working on adding a thermostat so it can turn on and off as necessary.
As for cooling, I have a 5k btu window unit that cools my place down just fine in the summer so i don't think you'll have much issue cooling.
My place is insulated pretty well, but not up to code in the ceiling as I only had 2x4 (true size) rafters.
Good luck!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 10:06am
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Fwiw, I have a 10x16 'tool shed/workshop' (when I went looking it was for a 12x16-20 but this one was already built), it has the typical small shed 'barn roof'. When it came I thought it would make a dandy 3 season small cabin even for 2 but no way would I put a wood stove in it. For shoulder seasons and occasional winter trips Id use my 10k btu lp heater to kick the chill out quick and only run with a window open a bit and when unit running, not all the time. I like the infrared (hot tiles) more than the open 'blue flame models.
These unvented units can work IF you use care with proper fresh air incoming because ANY combustion uses up oxygen. They do have an ODS (ox depletion sensor that shuts it down before lack of ox becomes an issue and if the 'burn' is good they dont generate significant co, BUT you still Need to have ventilation (btw, same as with a wood stove). There is water vapor, though when we ran a wood stove in our long ago 12x24 with 12x12 loft we Had to have a kettle of water on the stove to make some humidity. I think that is pretty common.
Idk if 10k btu direct vent units are available but that would be even better; the intake air comes from outside and the products of combustion and water vapor are exhausted out; the heat stays in via the internal heat exchanger. The dv lp units aren't quite as efficient as the non-vented though not enough to make much diff.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 01:13pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 What brand(s) are those FM?
The fireplace is an Osburn (who no longer makes gas heaters) and the smaller units are "Housewarmer", which was a discount brand sold by Empire.
Quoting: utherjorge I didn't mean to ignore propane direct heaters, which of course can be done without power. How do you manage moisture that the propane vents off? I'm interested.
No moisture; they're direct vent, i.e. they vent outside. I would not use an unvented heater for any living space, YMMV.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2026 10:17pm
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Quoting: Brettny Costway was the brand. I would have liked a 18k btu but there only 240v and we dont have acess to that being off grid.
If you are ever in that situation again, you can absolutely use a transformer (its how I power my mini split). These mini splits don't draw a ton and a 1500W transformer is enough. I'm on season 3 and the transformer is still working great.
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utherjorge
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2026 06:23am
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Brettny: Thanks again. Largely forested where I am but the humidity is a thing. Weird weather with what blows up the hill.
jsahara: I hadn't considered a direct vent propane before this whole thread; I have a Mr. Buddy thingy for tent camping, and it is useless. The first problem was that it would burn through a mini tank in about three hours. Maybe four. Swap and go...but then getting the chill out again was impossible. Got the 25# adapter hose, and still didn't do much for tent camping...and that's before the moisture problem. Considering all that has to be done to create space in such a small space for a pellet or wood stove, this might be far better, though propane costs money, obviously. And where the land is, I'd have to truck in my own 25# tanks, but I'm not there enough to make that so terrible.
travellerw: I know you didn't reply to me, but that might be something for me to check out, too. Seems that the 240s are higher-rated and are better with power...a transformer doesn't change that?
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travellerw
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2026 09:20pm
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Quoting: utherjorge I know you didn't reply to me, but that might be something for me to check out, too. Seems that the 240s are higher-rated and are better with power...a transformer doesn't change that?
Modern transformer efficiency is 96%-98%. Not enough to really sweat about, even for an off grid cabin. It is important to match the transformer size to the load. You don't want a 5000W transformer, but pull an 800w load. In that case the efficiency will be pretty low (probably 70%).
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2026 09:22am
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Quoting: utherjorge jsahara: I hadn't considered a direct vent propane before this whole thread; I have a Mr. Buddy thingy for tent camping, and it is useless. The first problem was that it would burn through a mini tank in about three hours. Maybe four. Swap and go...but then getting the chill out again was impossible. Got the 25# adapter hose, and still didn't do much for tent camping...and that's before the moisture problem. Considering all that has to be done to create space in such a small space for a pellet or wood stove, this might be far better, though propane costs money, obviously. And where the land is, I'd have to truck in my own 25# tanks, but I'm not there enough to make that so terrible.
With my 16x24 I have been doing some tests lately with the direct vent propane. Monday night it was 15* F, I ran the heater overnight on the lowest setting, 16k BTU, it was 68* at 7am when I checked it.
Last night it was 30*, ran it all night on the lowest setting, it was 76* in there this morning at 7am. So I definitely need to get a thermostat added to my setup, and I would recommend you only get one that has one built into it.
That is for a 16x24 with 3" polyiso with the edges spray foamed throughout the entire building.
If you go that route you could pickup a 100# tank and that would last you a decent amount if its just occasional use. Or they make 40# ones as well which are a lot easier to transport.
Luckily I am able to get a propane truck to fill my 420# tank. I just got it filled Monday and it was completely empty, cost me 225$ for reference.
Good luck!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2026 09:37am
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Note that you are not to transport the LP cylinders laying down! The tall 100#ers are difficult for that as well as awkward and Heavy.
We have used the readily available 20# bbq size for decades (easy to live with) though the pair of 30# I scored were dandy but now they need the new valves installed to get filled. If buying new, or get lucky enough to score a used one, the 40# may be the way to go IF it will fit upright in your transport (and you can handle the weight full).
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Brettny
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2026 10:19am
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20lb cylinders have there place. There really not the best for heating in a cold climate as the graph shows. You need alot of liquid area surface area this is why 20-40lb cylinders dont show much change. You can parallel them together though.
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utherjorge
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2026 05:45pm
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jsahara, gcrank, and brettny:
So, in other threads, I've described some of what I have for a space. I don't expect anyone to search for my deal or to remember, so just to add: this is a 12x16 amish shed I'm building out how I want this spring. I know that a propane company can run a long hose from the truck to the tank I get.
I have to ask my favorite guy down there if they'll go down the wheel track far enough up to fill tanks. It's not an official road; the road stops getting maintained some distance down the hill by the town, and then the cell peeps maintain it to their tower, and they all do it well. Closer to me up the hill, it can be pretty rough, especially when it rains. My favorite guy did my driveway, and it looks great. Since he happens to be the highway supervisor for the town (I ask no questions about this, my friends!) he also rehabbed the two track around my driveway and graded it...that stretch looks as good as the town road! However, before and after is rough, with exposed slate and poor drainage. Since it is not officially a road, and can't get mail to it...I vaguely remember that anything that requires a CDL won't go up there because since it's not a road they'd pay more if they got stuck. However, the shed guy dropped it off no problem, so my mileage will apparently vary.
If I can get a larger tank, since I definitely plan to cook with an outdoor kitchen via propane...this seems like a smart way to go.
brettny, I've never seen that graph. Is that saying that larger tanks are better for use, to summarize, when it's cold?
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Fanman
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2026 06:12pm - Edited by: Fanman
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Yes, larger tanks work better when cold.
The truck can't reach our cabin. Instead the gas truck fills tanks in the "tank farm", a fenced off area containing a dozen or so 100# tanks. When I need gas, I get a tank from the farm, throw it in my pickup, drive it as close as I can, and use a hand truck to bring it the last 75 yards or so, then return the empty. You might be able to do something similar by leaving a spare tank in a location the hose can reach.
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utherjorge
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2026 10:55am
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Fanman: I just did the driveway last summer, so I know it's less than 150 feet from the road to the cabin spot. Still pretty long, so this is something to check. Thank you!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2026 12:12pm
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Its not the length it is the condition, width for clearances and turn around/y turn to get out.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2026 02:28pm
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Quoting: utherjorge so I know it's less than 150 feet from the road to the cabin spot.
My propane supplier said he can fill a tank 150' from his truck...assuming that is the norm....
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Brettny
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2026 03:32pm
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The local propane company fills portable tanks cheaper than they deliver it. There are other easier options vs a propane heater. Pellet stove would be my second choice is wood stove isnt an option. You can find pellets every where, no tank to buy and maintain and you can move pellets in a little car.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2026 04:03pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Fwiw, my magnum size cylinder, a 100gal/420ish# (looks like an oversized bbq tank) has run our place 12x28 mostly 3season/occasional winter trips for 3+ years and at last fill, by my calc, should go 4+. I haul it to the gas place on my little trailer. It is pretty easy to get on but once full is a bear without a lift (I have a fork on my little JD 1025r).
It is easy to calc as LP has 91000+btu's per gal (not per #) and appliances have a btu rating. I did the calc's some years back for my 30k btu heater and was confident Id get at least 3yrs, then after that, when the gauge read 20%, I took it to get filed. It was only about 1/2 empty! Your little place with similar usage, and maybe a 10k btu heater, would go lonnggg on 2x 20#'ers and be easy to swap.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2026 04:49pm
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Quoting: Brettny Pellet stove would be my second choice is wood stove isnt an option.
Don't pellet stoves require electricity, which can be problematic off-grid? Most DV propane heaters do not.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2026 08:35am
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Just putting it out there because it hasn't been mentioned. We have a fuel oil drip stove and are very happy. No power needed.
There are companies like Nordic Heat that have some 8k BTW heaters for under 900 bucks. Small like 20" tall and 10" diameter with close clearances. 3" stack. A barrel of fuel would last a long time. Have fun with your project
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Fanman
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2026 09:22am
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That oil drip stove is interesting. I'm guessing, though, that it has to be manually operated and can't be controlled by a thermostat for when you're away?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2026 10:12am
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You adjust the drip with a valve for maintain the level of heat you want to keep. Simple, old school tech.
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utherjorge
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2026 10:26am
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I love and appreciate all of these replies; I've already been digging for and saving direct vent propane stuff, as that would free up a mountain of space inside the little cabin. I mean, it's only 12x16, so it's not a "mountain"...but considering how much you have to do to get a stove (pellet or wood) safely, there's some lost space there for sure. And perhaps no more. Being able to run without electricity is key for me, too.
AKlogcabin: now I'll look for fuel oil stoves. I am certain in the land of weird oil (there's a pump jack that sources very weird green oil inches from the property line of my back yard) someone here's going to have fuel oil for sale, but no clue on the cost.
And I'll start checking out stoves that run it. I like that the propane DVs have the thermostat that I can simply turn off when I'm going to be gone for some time. Interested to know how the drip works, as it suggests gravity and that suggest the oil has to be above.
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