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Redline
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2012 21:40
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So I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing here. I am drawing up the basic plans for a 12 X 16 with a loft that will be generator feed. A couple of questions what is the best way to come off of the generator to a breaker box? How many breakers would I have to run for say 4 outlets, 4 lights and 1 ceiling fan light combo? I'm thinking worse case scenario I'm looking at an air conditioner, the ceiling fan and couple of lights running at one time. So I was thinking two breakers for the lights & two for the outlets since one of the outlets would be a window air conditioner.
Any suggestions?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2012 21:52 - Edited by: MtnDon
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How big is the generator; watts? amps?
What's the draw on the A/C?
For most gennys I'd probably do one for the A/C, 15 or 20 amps whatever it needs and then do one or maybe two at the most for all the other devices.
As for how to connect the generator to the buildings panel, IF there is absolutely no way that any other AC power source could somehow be connected to the cabin, a simple grounded cord with a plug that connects to the generator output would work. Having such a cord could be deadly if there was any other source of AC in the cabin setup.
IF there is any chance of there being another sorce of AC in the cabin you should use an ext cord with a "shore power" socket that is hard wired to the cabin. It really is the best way. We've got examples of them in some threads here but just off hand I'm not sure where they are.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2012 21:54 - Edited by: MtnDon
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connector over here scroll down a tad....
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Redline
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2012 22:05
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Cool thanks for the link. As for the cabin it is a open book right now every thing is in the design stage, I will not break ground for a month or two. The cabin has no way to ever connect to the grid so that isn't a concern at this point. Thanks for the help.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2012 00:43
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With a 4 space subpanel you can use one space as a main breaker/disconnect and the other 3 for the outlets and lights
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2012 07:40
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Redline, I'm working out these same questions that you are. Are you planning for any batteries or anything for power when the generator is not running?
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2012 08:49 - Edited by: PA_Bound
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If you want some additional options on those male connectors, do web search for "NEMA 5 flanged inlet male". You will get a bunch of returns for 15 and 20 amp, 120v recessed male connectors (or "NEMA 6..." for 240v).
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Bzzzzzt
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2012 09:03 - Edited by: Bzzzzzt
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Being an electrician, and having just roughed in my cabin this last weekend for this very setup, I feel I can make a response here.
I roughed in a plug in the loft, 4 light boxes, 1 switch and 6 plugs on 3 circuits. I installed a weatherproof box outside that was 70amp 2 space and used 2 "piggy back" 20A breakers. I intend to feed it with a 10/3 SO cord with an L5-30 cord end because my generator only puts out 120V with a peak of 4250 watts. I will install a jumper so that both lugs of the panel will be "hot" off of the same feed. If you have A generator that puts out 240V you likely have an L14-30 recptical and could use a 10/4 SO cord in whatever length you desire.
I used #12 wire for everything because I don't like overloading 15 amp circuits. I also used 12/3 rather than 12/2 romex which will make it easier in the future to add circuits if necessary. That, and I had a roll of it laying around the house collecting dust. LOL.
I too intend to run a window unit but I'm intending to use LED bulbs in everything so it can be used with the solar setup.
I also intend to make a setup to power this same box with my solar panels, but I have yet to purchase that system yet.
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Redline
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 00:05
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Wow thats great thanks for the info! Yes i do plan on running battery power some of the time. Im just not sure how much of the time yet. I dont realy want to cart the batterys back and forth each time i go up. So I may rely on the generator for the air conditioner and well pump and the rest of the time go back to the basics with gas lighting. Im not sure yet...
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 09:45
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My plan is to use batteries with an inverter/charger to provide power for lighting and essentials. I have a generator (need it for the well pump also) but, like everybody else, don't want to run it any more than I have to. I don't want to haul batteries back and forth either, so I'm going to take a risk and attempt to leave them secured (hopefully) at the cabin and only remove them for winter. We'll see how that works out- but I'm willing to take that chance. I thought about gas lights, as we have those in our hunting cabin. The only problem I have is that they put off a boatload of heat- great for cooler evenings, not so good in the dog-days of summer.
One thought this thread did add to my plan was to put in an outlet for an AC unit. I wasn't planning to air condition the cabin, but you never know- and now is the time to plan for it. Thanks for the hint.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 10:35
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Redline & PA_B are you thinking of hauling batteries back and forth because of theft concerns, fear of discharging and if left over winter, freezing? I guess as far as theft that danger varies with location. We're fortunate in that we've never had an issue and in fact we've only ever had two or three visitors walk through when we're away and those were friends looking to see if we were there. (Several hidden game cameras around the place.
I've used 20 watts of PV module with a cheapy controller on the RV to maintain the battery charge over the winter and periods of non use. Now the cabin system runs itself over the absences and winters. Makes life easier. Just thoughts.
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 10:45
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Just a thought about solar vs generator power:
It is my intention to put an L5-30 male cord end that will plug straight into the twist lock receptacle on my generator but that will only be necessary when I'm running an A/C or if the batteries are down. It is my intention when I get my solar panels set up to run a wire underground from the batteries/inverter over to the cord hanging off of the cabin and have an L5-30P Female cord end so that I can take the cord out of the generator and plug it into the solar power. In this manner I will eliminate the need for a transfer switch as you can't plug them both in at the same time. This set up will be a little more work to use it and I know that if I try to plug my 1500 watt space heater in it'll suck the battery dry in a matter of minutes (if it works at all) but for my purposes it is a cheaper alternative and being knowledgeable in the electrical field I'll make sure to watch for any trouble spots and nip them in the bud before they are a real problem.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 10:46
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MtnDon... you covered both of my thoughts- the first being theft and the other being winter discharge/freezeing, etc. But I'm already willing to risk theft, so after reading your post, if I could maintain them through the winter, I would let them in place year-around.
I've been reading the posts on solar, but I'm such a neophyte when it comes to those technologies that I've been putting it off because I have so much else to learn. Could you point me to a simple solution however that would maintain a couple (probably only two) batteries?
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 10:58
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As far as theft goes, I was thinking of building a little dog house size shed to lock my batteries and inverter and other solar equipment in out by the panels. Because my setup will be in a field on my property and my cabin is actually out in the woods I want to run A/C wiring instead of D/C the 150 or so feet over to the cabin just to keep the losses and wire size to a minimum.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 11:31
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PA_B; I used a couple of small panels and a cheap controller from Northern Tool on the RV setup. The RV had 4 golf cart batteries wired series/parallel for 12 volts. Here's a photo of the panels, only one I could find...
I just leaned up there and left them all winter and in the spring the batteries were fine. Water 'em up in fall and they keep.
Those are 15 watt panels but one cracked due to an accident and it's output was cut. Over a few years they also faded to have about a 20 watt output total.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 11:42 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Bzzzzt
Here is an automatic transfer switch, good to 30 amps that won't break the bank. They're aimed at the RV market.
RV Switch
The generator input overrides the other (inverter) input with a 30 second delay.
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 12:03
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Hey thanks! I had never seen one that cheap before. I had considered building myself one out of a couple of definite purpose contactors but the cord and plug idea just seemed the absolute cheapest way to go. I might see about getting one of those.
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Redline
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2012 23:35
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Ya my main concern is the theft, I am with in spitting distance from the road and there is no way to lock something down enough that someone can't steal it. Not only am i on the road but in the summer it has a fair amount of traffic that passes I would say 6 or 7 cars a day. I am putting in a lockable u haul box but I will not feel too comfortable untill I see what kind of visitors the new cabin brings. The next piece of property will be much deeper in the bush, however this one will have to work for now.
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Bzzzzzt
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jan 2012 00:12
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As far as the theft factor goes, you might think about installing one of those game cams hidden around your property. I've read other threads on here about people who have installed them and camouflaged them with brush and twigs. Just make sure not to cover up the sensor or it'll be pointless.
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