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mojo43
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2012 22:45
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I have been working on my tiny cabin and looking ahead. I was thinking that in the future I might want to plug in electricity from a future cottage or maybe a generator plug to the cabin. I just need a couple of outlets in the cabin. Does anyone know how I could do this? I was envisioning a male plug on the outside of the cabin where the extension cord could plugin, but beyond that I have no idea where to start.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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neb
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2012 22:55
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There is some people on here that wire for a living that can help you out. If it was me I would invest in a small (100 Amp) breaker box and mount that in the cabin. Then just wire in what you want and follow the code NESC from there on. You want to install a breaker first then wire for the load and that way when you bring power in from a source like a utility or if you want a generator then you can feed the breaker box from what ever source you want. It really is a easy thing to do and since you don't want much for power it would be cheap to do.
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mojo43
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2012 22:59
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Ok, I guess I need to do some reading. I didn't realize that I would need a circuit box. Can anyone send me some reading so i can start this off? I thought I would be able to plug directly and then feed off to the other two outlets.
Thanks again....
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neb
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2012 23:12
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Ya you could do that but not not the best idea but this is just me. A gen. does have a breaker but if you set it up right then it will easier down the road if you ever want a source from PU. It would only be a cost of a breaker box and it is a safety thing that you want. Look in to it and hope you get a few more reply's.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 07:39
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I'm in the process of wiring my cabin now. I followed the route neb suggested, and installed a panel box. You're right however... if all you want is a few outlets you could skip the box and just install a male plug to wire into the generator- then wire your outlets. I started thinking that way as well, but then a few outlets turned into a bunch of outlets, some electric lights, a dual-mode (AC/Propane) refrigerator and some other items. For larger installations a panel box makes the wiring of all that easier. I know I'm installing way-more capacity then I need, but I'm wiring for future wants/needs as it is simply so much easier to do it when there are no walls coverings or insulation in place.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 09:49
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We had overhead wires at one point and decided to sink them. While the trench was open I decided to run electric to the large shed we have. I ran two breakers from our 200 amp panel out there. I could have ran a sub panel out there, but decided to keep it simple. (I wouldn't mind walking to the house to flip a breaker)
We have one breaker for outlets and one for lights. We ran a 4 wire underground cable (ground, hot, hot, nuetral). So far it has worked fine. Later if we convert to a workshop we'll add a sub panel (100amp).
Outside the shed I have a sealed junction box where the conduit meets the house. That is the key for you if you decide to go ultra simple. If you build it so you can add to it later you will be fine.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 13:09
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once you wire everything up, you want to run it to a generator inlet. This is the male plug you had mentioned. I did this, but mine is wired to a 100 amp panel. I plan to connect to the utility, as my wife has no interest in the whole off the grid concept!
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 13:24 - Edited by: GomerPile
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Run oversized Romex (12 to 10AWG) for all your circuits. Romex will allow you to run 12VDC or 120VAC thru the circuit. Square D makes the "QO" series of breakers that are AC and DC rated. They also make a 6 circuit load center.
http://www.amazon.com/SOURCE-SQUARE-QO612L100S-INDOOR-CENTER/dp/B00002N7MO/ref=sr_1_2 ?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344878726&sr=1-2&keywords=6+circuit+load+center+square+d
http://www.amazon.com/Square-QO130CP-30A-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B00002N5IF/ref=sr_1_6?s=h i&ie=UTF8&qid=1344878801&sr=1-6&keywords=square+d+qo+breakers
If you install 2 load centers (AC and DC) you can decide what voltage each circuit can carry by connecting it to the corresponding load center. The only catch is that you must use 2 unique style of receptacle so you dont accidently plug a 12V thing into a 120V outlet. Also remember that AC light switches will not last very long if they are used to switch DC loads....get a DC rated switch.
The load centers should be fed via a fused disconnect mounted outside the building.
Above is the "NEC compliant" way to wire a cabin. If you don't care about the NEC, I recommend using 2 conductor landscape wire (12AWG). Find a fuse block that has 8-10 fuses and wire each to a circuit in the house. Make sure you install a main switch to turn the place off. The feed wire to the fuse block wants to be larger than 12 AWG....probably 8 to 6 AWG would do.
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 13:44
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I was originally all gung-ho on installing 12V circuits at my cabin, but after reading about the MorningStar Sure Sine 300 inverter, I quickly changed my mind. It uses something like 55ma at idle, and for that little of a draw, it saved me from running extra circuits and spending a bunch of money for 10 and 12 gauge cable. I simply ran 14 gauge romex through my cabin to a 100A panel (like others have mentioned) and then have a plugin for an inverter or generator. I only use the generator when I need to charge my batteries or to run a 5000 btu air conditioner.
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 14:06
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An inverter sure is easier but that ease of use/installation comes at the price of efficiency. 55mA is a good standby figure for an inverter but how much power is that in real terms?
.055 X 24 = 1.32 amp hours per day!
When you use AC powered stuff you will find all kinds of phantom loads. Some "wall worts" will draw small amounts of power even though the device its powering is off.
When you get into larger loads you will find that your batteries become less efficient and the inverters efficiency is less than rated, etc etc.
If you have lots of batteries and PV panels then no need to worry I guess.
Quoting: Dillio187 I was originally all gung-ho on installing 12V circuits at my cabin, but after reading about the MorningStar Sure Sine 300 inverter, I quickly changed my mind.
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 16:09
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I only have 2 golf cart batteries. The Sure Sine has a nice remote off switch feature, so I turn it off before turning in for the night. They recharge via 320 watts of panels. Not a ton, but I've been happy with the system. 55ma is nothing when compared to the line losses a 12V system gives you.
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 16:43 - Edited by: GomerPile
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A lot of people think this but its not true except in *some* applications:
+ 12 AWG wire is 1.588 ohms per foot
+ A 15 foot run (average) thru your wall is .0476 ohms
+ Lets say you run a 12V, 5 amp water pump (a common large load) thats a .238 volt loss
+ The pump will consume 58.8 watts, the wire consumes 1.2 (for a 2% loss)
If you ran this pump for 24 hours it would consume 120 amp hours, with the loss 2% more would be 122.4 amp hours. The delta is 2.4 amp hours.
The SureSine inverter is 90% efficient at 120 watts and 85% efficient at 300. The same load above (no wiring losses) would consume 132 amp hours a delta of 12 amp hours...No where close to the performance of a low voltage system!
Long runs is where the DC line losses become problematic....
Quoting: Dillio187 55ma is nothing when compared to the line losses a 12V system gives you.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 21:23
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I also installed a 100A panel with 8 slots. Should be more than I'll ever need. I'll be going solar but will occasionally plug the generator in (as I build the solar system up to capacity).. I just wired the house like I would any other I work on....
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