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goodbyelizajane
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 09:26
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I realize there is another ongoing discussion on alternative waste treatment systems; however we're not exactly building our cabin "off-grid" so I thought I'd put mine here.
Our problem is both regulatory and practical. We're building a two-person, year-round cabin inside the Blue Line. Our 4.5-acre lot is lakefront and comprised largely of ledge and swamp, so squeezing in a traditional septic system is looking impossible, in both legal and ecological terms.
Up-to-date and experienced feedback on composting and incinerating toilet systems seems hard to come by. Sun-Mar and the like talk a good game on their websites, but I'm wondering what it's really like to live with such systems. We will have the (heated) space and the electricity for one of the fancier central units, but I've heard nightmares about malfunctioning composting drums and terrible odors, and I don't want to blow thousands of dollars on a system that will make our cabin uninhabitable. We're also looking at a pump-out greywater tank, and I'm also wondering how that will go.
Any advice appreciated.
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trollbridge
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 09:47
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Welcome!
Could you just go with a traditional holding tank that gets pumped out once or twice a year (for grey water and sewage)?
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GomerPile
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 10:29
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I live with a composting toilet made by Natures Head and have zero issues with odor or cold temp operation. The difference (from Sunmar) is that liquids and solids are not mixed together. At times in the winter my system drops to freezing or near freezing and nothing bad happens. Operating at low temps I am not convinced that much decomposition is taking place...thats why you need an outside dedicated compost pile to let nature work its magic.
The only electrical connection to the toilet is a very small fan which runs from 12V and is used to constantly remove vapors from the holding tank. It works perfectly, so well in fact that I think it stinks less than a water based toilet.
The Natures Head toilet is probably a bit more "hands on" than other products, I guess there is no free lunch.
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goodbyelizajane
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 10:44
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Thanks, trollbridge.
I'd have to check on the regs in terms of putting blackwater in a pumpable holding tank (certainly this goes on at many state campsites). As far as greywater goes, the APA have said it would be fine to bury such a tank (presuming we could find sufficient soil or add sufficient fill near the cabin) for periodic pumping. As I recall, we starting thinking about dealing otherwise with blackwater because toilets constitute such a large percentage of residential water use, and every gallon flushed is a gallon we have to pump out. However, if we could do it legally, using a water-efficient toilet, it might be worth paying for more frequent pumping to avoid problems with composting/incineration.
It's difficult at present to gauge how much water we use; according to the EPA, an average American family of four consumes about 400 gallons per day. Obviously when we get this place up, we'll be modifying our consumption habits to conserve as much water as possible, and investing in some super-efficient appliances. I'm not sure how big they make such pumpable holding tanks, but that will be crucial in terms of pumping frequency.
Sadly there's not much prospect of greywater reuse outside. Too much water is our problem, rather than lack thereof!
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goodbyelizajane
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 11:28
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Cheers Gomer.
If I'm reading the Nature's Head use instructions correctly, you still have to dispose of the urine. We'll likely have an outdoor compost heap anyway (for non-edibles, probably in a container garden), but what do you do with the liquid remains?
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GomerPile
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 11:52 - Edited by: GomerPile
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@goodbyelizajane
two options:
1) Modify the built in tank with a drain and just drain it off with your grey water. Adding a drain would be simple as drilling a hole in the bottom of the unit and installing a fitting of some kind on the tank....maybe a short length of hose or something....drain thru floor.
2) The collection tank is easily removed and even has a handle. Bring it outside, dilute with water and fertilize your lawn....(im being serious) urine is actually good fertilizer when applied correctly.
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goodbyelizajane
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 12:24
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Looks like putting any blackwater in a holding tank is not going to work. From NYS Dept of Health:
The use of holding tanks shall not be permitted for new home construction except where occupancy of a home is permitted while the sewage treatment system is under construction...Holding tanks are not acceptable for long term use on year-round residences.
There isn't really anything on this land you could classify as a "lawn." We'd essentially just be dumping urine into the swamp.
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trollbridge
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 14:46
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Well, check that solution off your list then! Lol.
Are you sure you can get building permits if you can't install a standard septic system? They don't consider your land un-buildable do they? I hope not 
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adakseabee
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2013 20:24
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Before you give up on alternative septic systems, check out this website: http://inspectapedia.com/septic/NYS75-A.0.htm
There may be alternatives that will work on your site. I suggest you contact a septic system design professional engineer who has experience in your area. Your county health department would be a good place to start to obtain names.
Be prepared to spend $$$.
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