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Mart
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 14:16 - Edited by: Mart
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Hi everyone,
I am very glad that I found this website/forum. First of all, sorry if my english is not OK I am from Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada. I am 22 years old and I am planning to build a cabin on my friend land. It is located in Ham-Sud, Quebec. We have 44 hectares full of maple trees. I am a woodworker with 2 years of experience and I want to be a self-employed.
My first question is about Foundation... I would like to know a cheap and effective way to build a foundation for a cabin between 10'X20' ... 14'X20' , something like that. I am planning to built this cabin for a short time of life, 3 to 5 years.
I am learning different type of foundation but I would like to know a cheap one and easy making, no need to be good for more than 5 years...
Thank you very much guys!
Martin
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 16:07 - Edited by: LoonWhisperer
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Welcome to the forum Martin. Now I will step aside and let the knowledgeable folks chime in  Best of luck!
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 16:13 - Edited by: Just
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what are the soil conditions sand , clay, gravel , shield solid rock..
wet or dry ? do you have access to a good road to bring in gravel??flat or sloping ??
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Mart
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 17:10
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Thank you LoonWhisperer !
Just ; The soil is kind of wet, a bit. It's more like silt than sand and yes I do have an access to a road to bring in gravel but I would like to use less material as much as I can... And it is a bit slopy.
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creeky
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 19:35
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mart. head over to apb pole barns. he has full instructions on how to build a pole barn.
if you have soft soil. a pole barn is just the thing. a few 12' posts. a few 2x8s for the frame, 2x6 for the floor and minimal 2x4s and some tin. you're all set.
it can last a lot longer than 5 years of course. but the build requires nothing besides basic materials, nails and hammer swinging.
my .02. good luck. and I look foward to the pics of your build.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 19:45
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Another approach could be to build on 2 6x6 skids on top of one load of heavy stone spread and compacted level . Many cabins are built that way also .
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Mart
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 19:58
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Hey Creeky, yeah thanks I was thinking about that to.
The thing is, I am focusing on the foundation, how can I put the 12 or 14' posts in the ground and level them? Digging holes, below the frost line then putting cement ( or not necessarily ? ) with the post, that's it?
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Mart
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 19:59
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Just ; If I can find enough stone with not much labour time, I think it would be a great way for my foundation. Thanks
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 20:50
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Even better, use whats there . One other tip Porky pine love chip board better not to feed them your cabin.
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Mart
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 21:15 - Edited by: Mart
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lol
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Mart
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 21:20
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What do you mean by , ''Even better, use whats there'' ?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 21:59
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Quoting: Mart ''Even better, use whats there'
use what you have on the land , for free
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Mart
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2015 22:02
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Yeah you're right.
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Truecabin
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 00:29
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10x20 is small cabin
can you find big rocks like 2 feet square in the area?
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Don_P
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 07:59
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Building it post frame (pole barn) style is stronger and better than sitting it on piers, it eliminates the hinge between pier and building. A concrete or treated wood, or stone footing is placed in the bottom of the hole below frost depth. The purpose of the footing is to spread out the weight of the post and its' load over a larger footprint of soil, sort of like a snowshoe on soft snow keeps you from sinking. With the tall posts extending up to the tops of the walls the wall sheathing braces the posts when wind tries to push the building over or when the soft soil surrounding the posts is incapable of keeping them upright. Those last conditions is where a pier typically fails and your soil sounds like pier failure stuff.
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Mart
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 13:19
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Quoting: Truecabin 10x20 is small cabin can you find big rocks like 2 feet square in the area?
I'm not sur but I'll look for it. What is your idea with the rocks?
Quoting: Don_P Building it post frame (pole barn) style is stronger and better than sitting it on piers, it eliminates the hinge between pier and building. A concrete or treated wood, or stone footing is placed in the bottom of the hole below frost depth. The purpose of the footing is to spread out the weight of the post and its' load over a larger footprint of soil, sort of like a snowshoe on soft snow keeps you from sinking. With the tall posts extending up to the tops of the walls the wall sheathing braces the posts when wind tries to push the building over or when the soft soil surrounding the posts is incapable of keeping them upright. Those last conditions is where a pier typically fails and your soil sounds like pier failure stuff.
Don_P, thank you very much man, well explained. So just to make sure, when I put the post in the hole - on the footing, do I need to fill with dirt and concrete or just dirt will do it?
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Don_P
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 18:40
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Just dirt, the footing is resisting the vertical load and the walls above are resisting the horizontal loads. With a typical pier the footing is doing the same job of resisting the vertical load but the soil/backfill/muck is trying to resist the horizontal loads.
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Mart
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 20:06
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Cool! Thanks Don!
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 23:08
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Now, how to set a fencepost, there is no reason not to make the soil do as much work as possible to brace things. After you get them in their holes and temporarily braced on dimension and plumb. Backfill around the posts in "lifts" of about 6" then tamp. If the soil is soft and cannot be rammed hard add gravel as you fill. Using a digging bar with a flat tamper on the end, ram each lift as tight as the soil will compress,walk around the post packing, adding dirt and tamping it tight. The bottom and the top of a post hole are the most critical to get packed well, if you think about it they are the lever points.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2015 23:26
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That's what I do and this is similar to the tool I have....
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Mart
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2015 14:58 - Edited by: Mart
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Great info!
Now, If I want to build a 10X20 cabin, with 4x4 post, four of them - each corner and how many feet long? (4 feet in the ground), 7-8 feet walls...
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Don_P
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2015 22:00
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6x6 posts, you need some meat left after connecting things together. A 4x4 is prohibited for deck posts in many places, this will have a deck, walls, a roof and stuff inside. The beams that support the floor, walls and roof (with whatever your snow load is) would not be able to span 20'. It might be possible to do it with 6 posts and 10' beam spans but most likely you'll need 8, 4 on each 20' side. We can talk about how to size those beams, the joists and the rafters... how to size a wooden beam, if it is of interest.Things i would need to know, what is the snow load in your area in lbs per square foot, what species and grade of wood are you working with. It sounds like the posts will be about 14-16' long.
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Mart
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2015 00:03
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Things have changed a bit... I am thinking of a 10X12 cabin or something around that. Still in planning.
There's lot of snow over here, i'm not sure exactly how much lbs per square foot. But it's kind of same thing as north-east usa.
I was thinking of buying 6x6 posts treated wood. But I can find hard wood on my friend land and use them as posts.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2015 06:46
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What do you have in the way of naturally decay resistant wood? Do you have black locust or northern white cedar? You mentioned maple on the land, which one? It is not suitable for ground contact but might be useable above.
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Mart
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 11:51
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Hey Don, I don't really know which kind of trees there's on the land. I will look forward to that when I'll return over there.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 14:01 - Edited by: Don_P
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I've been doodling on a 10x12 postframed building. The posts are 6x6 treated. Across the 10' ends is the girder that carries the floor joists, under that girder are chunks of 4x6 treated down to the footings. That girder built up of #2 SPF or better could be 3 2x8's sandwiched together. Or if you have good maple or better a sawn 6x10 girder. Screw into the end of the girder through the notch for the floor rim with some ledgerlocks or similar. The joists run the 12' direction and could be as small as 2x8's in stamped lumber, in home sawn lumber go with 2x10's. The gable end top beam supports a ridgepost that supports the 2x12 ridgebeam, 2x12. The side 2x12's support the ends of the rafters, notch them in on each side. At midwall there is a let in 2x girt to support board and batten siding. Under the boards there should be X's of metal strapping wherever you can work them in between openings. Tin on the roof and it is an uninsulated low cost structure. Wrapping it in a layer of T-111, ply or osb sheathing eliminates the need for the steel strapping, the sheetgoods brace the structure better than strapping and would help airseal it. It could be wrapped in sheets of foam to make it a tight 4 season structure, at quite a cost. Anyway, just more to ruminate.
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Mart
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 14:26
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Wow good information over here thank you. I was about to do a sketchup. I was more thinking of a Shed type roof, for the lower use of materials.
Which kind of tree can I use for the 6x6 posts? white cedar?
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Don_P
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 17:17
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White cedar would be good. For a shed roof you'll probably need a triple 2x12 beam on the top of each 12' wall to carry the rafters. For that matter it could also be at floor level with a load bearing wall on each of those sides.
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crchaumont52
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2015 20:18
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Quoting: creeky if you have soft soil. a pole barn is just the thing. a few 12' posts. a few 2x8s for the frame, 2x6 for the floor and minimal 2x4s and some tin. you're all set. it can last a lot longer than 5 years of course. but the build requires nothing besides basic materials, nails and hammer swinging. my .02. good luck. and I look foward to the pics of your build.
I like the way this guy thinks. His advice right on for your "temporary" criteria. And also right that (and I'm going to quote someone who wrote on this forum before me) "even a poorly built house will last a long time".
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Mart
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2015 15:05
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Take a look at this Tiny House 8X12
http://scottsnextadventure.blogspot.ca/2015/01/life-in-83-square-feet-my-transforming .html
I want to build something almost identically.
The design is an extremely simple one. The footprint is 8x12 feet (extremely easy, just three sheets of 3/4" plywood), the back wall is 8 feet, the front wall is 10 feet and it is a 12 foot single-pitch shed roof. The floor joists are 2x6s sitting on pressure treated 4x4s and the rest of the framing is done in 2x4s. It is insulated with standard fiberglass insulation and has electricity but no running water.
Take a look at the foundation, footing, blocks... the pressure treated 4x4s
I don't need to dig holes for the footing. Just 4 blocks sitting on the ground , right?
What you guys think about that?
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