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Small Cabin Forum / Off-Grid Living / Driven Sand Point Shallow well
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neb
Member
# Posted: 23 Feb 2022 22:01
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Anyone here driven a sand point water well?

I don't live off grid but have a cabin at the ranch. I augured in shallow well last fall. I made an auger and went down to 17 feet and hit water. I plan on pumping it this summer and use my generator to do some watering.

Two years ago, at my home in a small town I pounded in a swallow well and has been the best things I ever have done.

ICC
Member
# Posted: 23 Feb 2022 22:07 - Edited by: ICC
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I'm always amazed when this topic comes along, said the guy with the 685 foot deep well.

Me.

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 23 Feb 2022 22:29 - Edited by: gcrank1
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At my place the prev owner drove a 2 1/4" pipe years ago. When I dropped a line I hit water about 25', too far for a shallow pump, and seemed at least 40ish ' deep. Hasnt been used in ?; got it capped and should probably plug it.
I havent found a pump that will fit in that pipe anyway that will work that deep and the pipe took a diversion at about 15', it hooks off to one side so it is not a straight down drop for a long bodied pump.
The idea of driving a bigger casing for a new well that deep seems like too much work at age 69.....for essentially a 3-season rec cabin. Then there would likely be the permitting; ie, to get a well permit (even to do myself) there has to be a septic permit.

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 04:55
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Quoting: ICC
I'm always amazed when this topic comes along, said the guy with the 685 foot deep well.

You have a potable water well drilled to code. A driven well typicaly isnt.

My neighbors have 200-600ft wells. My 1930s house has a 50ft well, yes its surface water and takes treating.

littlesalmon4
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 10:26
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Hey Gcrank, I helped my neighbor pound in a 2" sandpoint. It is 28' deep. Here is the pump he is using. He ran a piece of 1" poly down to the sand point. If the link does not work try burcam booster pump. He has used this configuration for 2 years, all seasons.

https://www.amazon.ca/BurCam-506532SS-Water-Pressure-Booster/dp/B003AJDNRU/ref=sr_1_4 ?adgrpid=1349101000400081&hvadid=84318967410351&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=5493&hvnetw =o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84318982720130%3Aloc-32&hydadcr=19625_10274643&keywords=burca m+pump&qid=1645716141&sr=8-4

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 10:40 - Edited by: gcrank1
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The specs and reviews on that (yeah, I had to look) are not encouraging.....pricey too
So, he attached a 1" poly hose to a booster pump intended for a 4" pipe?

neb
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 11:36 - Edited by: neb
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^ ^ interesting pump and installing.

I just bought another pump last week for shallow well. I bought one just like what I have for 91$ shipped to the front door. It is a 1/2 hp and low amp motor/pump and no pressure tank needed. I can run 3 sprinkler heads at one time. If I run it for 24 hours straight the cost for power is just under 3$. I have about 220$ into the entire well (pipe, motor, fittings suction head etc.).

I wish I would have done it years and years ago.

littlesalmon4
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 15:32 - Edited by: littlesalmon4
Reply 


he actually used the Canadian tire version.
The only issue is it is relatively loud so the installation point can matter.

Looks like the burcam link is a different pump. Burcam also makes one similar to the Canadian tire pump.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-shallow-well-jet-pump-with-control-3-4 -hp-0623593p.html#srp

Irrigation Guy
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 20:48
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Quoting: littlesalmon4
Hey Gcrank, I helped my neighbor pound in a 2" sandpoint. It is 28' deep. Here is the pump he is using. He ran a piece of 1" poly down to the sand point. If the link does not work try burcam booster pump. He has used this configuration for 2 years, all seasons.


Your neighbors well must have a water level higher than 28’ for that pump to work. 23-25 feet is the most a suction pump can pull water from.

neb
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 21:01
Reply 


Quoting: Irrigation Guy
Your neighbors well must have a water level higher than 28’ for that pump to work. 23-25 feet is the most a suction pump can pull water from.

Yes, that is right. 25 feet is max feet for shallow well pump.

Irrigation Guy
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 21:12
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Quoting: gcrank1
At my place the prev owner drove a 2 1/4" pipe years ago. When I dropped a line I hit water about 25', too far for a shallow pump, and seemed at least 40ish ' deep. Hasnt been used in ?; got it capped and should probably plug it.
I havent found a pump that will fit in that pipe anyway that will work that deep and the pipe took a diversion at about 15', it hooks off to one side so it is not a straight down drop for a long bodied pump.
The idea of driving a bigger casing for a new well that deep seems like too much work at age 69.....for essentially a 3-season rec cabin. Then there would likely be the permitting; ie, to get a well permit (even to do myself) there has to be a septic permit.


You might be able to put a two line jet pump on that casing. Or put in a Simple Pump or Bison Pump both are hand pumps

neb
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 21:42
Reply 


Quoting: Irrigation Guy
You might be able to put a two line jet pump on that casing.

That is right. I have seen on shallow well pumps where there is an attachment for two line installation. A shallow well/jet pump would work.

Just
Member
# Posted: 24 Feb 2022 23:33
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Neb great to here from you! I have 6 driven wells .youn need to have very sandy soil . I start with 1 and a1/4 pipe and a sand point and drive it in then a check velve then the water line and pump our best well feeds our sheep barn 120 sheep..g

neb
Member
# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 09:15 - Edited by: neb
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Just>> yes great to hear from you also. I hope your health has been doing well.

This last driven well site is all in sandy soil. I actually made an auger from a pipe that fills with dirt pull up dump and repeat. The suction point will be in sand when I install it and hoping it isn't an issue. I was wondering if to sandy it will plug the screen on the suction point. This last one I dug doesn't have pipe installed but it is just over a quarter mile from river.

Yes and both of mine will be 1 1/4 pipe.

Just
Member
# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 11:02
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We can get 3. Different size screens but you do not know till you get it in the hole !!

neb
Member
# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 11:10
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Just >> that is interesting!! So, these heads are identified for screen size etc.?

The material I'm in would be considered rivah sand and very fine.

So, what would I need to ask for or what would you recommend for screen or head type.

Not holding you accountable but just picking your brain and knowledge and experience on the subject.

Great info Just, I didn't realize different screen etc.

Just
Member
# Posted: 25 Feb 2022 22:58
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Not sure eather ,i ordered one from a pump supplier and he asked what size, he said there are three ,I took the size he sells to every one eles around here. We have course sand .

neb
Member
# Posted: 26 Feb 2022 08:58
Reply 


Thanks Just.
When I get ready to get the material I will ask and research it.

Thanks for the heads up.

Aklogcabin
Member
# Posted: 26 Feb 2022 13:42
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I'm in the process of getting our sand point well done. I started trying to pound it in by hand but too difficult. I'm using 2" pipe. The point I got from our local well guy has size 5
micron holes in a 4' long stainless pipe. I'll finish pounding it with an electric portable jackhammer.
He suggested a couple pointers. To know when you hit the water table put water in the pipe as your installing, when you can't fill it your in the water table. Use an air compressor to blow air down the pipe to clean any clay or mud from the screen.
The pump I have has its own pressure switch , similar to what is in a moterhome. Claims to be able to lift 25' , using a 1/2" hose. If there is trouble lifting I can use a smaller suction line. Or since it's 2" pipe there is 12v pumps that are just under 2" diameter that are submersible. If a person wanted you could probably use both. Also bought special pipe couplers made so the ends of the pipe meet. So you don't blow out the threads pounding on them.
A picture of pipe, I have it under the kitchen counter and will be covered when I get the kitchen cabinets done. Should have potable running mwater just like home
Good luck, n have fun
Sand point
Sand point


neb
Member
# Posted: 26 Feb 2022 21:25
Reply 


^ to see how much or when you hit water. Drop a dry line with a nut tied to the string and drop it down the inside of the pipe. Know how much pipe you have down and than see where the string is wet on the line. Easy to figure out how much water you have and how far from ground level the water is.

RichieNY
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2022 14:18
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Has anyone tried this sand point method in the upper central NY region? The water table is quite shallow and this option would save me thousands

jsahara24
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2022 14:54
Reply 


Quoting: RichieNY
Has anyone tried this sand point method in the upper central NY region? The water table is quite shallow and this option would save me thousands


I am in oswego county and have a standard well, its about 80 feet deep. My neighbor has one about 30' deep and it dried up a couple years back over the summer, but otherwise he hasn't had any trouble in ~10 years. I see no reason why it wouldn't work, assuming water is that shallow on your property. The soils by me are mostly sand and gravel....

RichieNY
Member
# Posted: 14 Apr 2022 15:10
Reply 


Okay thanks. There are some government studies from the area suggesting 20 feet deep may provide fair sustainable water. I am in northern onieda co. I hand dug a hole with a shovel and it filled up like being at sea level. What type of well did your neighbor have?

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2022 06:44
Reply 


The ground water is always high here in NY in the spring.

We use to visit a cabin in the ADKs that had a hand pump well. The ground was very sandy there.

Steve_S
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2022 08:12
Reply 


Ladies & Gents.

PLEASE be cautious with using Ground Water and assuming that it is POTABLE ie: Suitable for consumption ! Many would be SHOCKED to discover that their Groundwater is NOT Potable.

PLEASE READ THE INFO IN THE LINK BELOW, be informed & aware.
https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/groundwater-quality

Brettny
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2022 08:44
Reply 


Ground water is never potable. Even in that cabin 4mi from a paved road and 1/2mi plus to the next cabin I wouldnt drink it, make coffee with it nor cook pasta with it

I do have a ground water well in my home but it goes through filters and a UV light.

gcrank1
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2022 13:07 - Edited by: gcrank1
Reply 


Ground water is never potable? But....
Most everyone here has their own well, many have been using it for generations.
According to the USGS it accounts for some 95% of the worlds fresh water supply and 37% of county and city water dept. supply. Idk what those places do to it but few here filter, fewer uv it, tastes good and no disease outbreaks.
Not the same near the huge 'factory farms' with massive acreage/chemical use though. Ive heard of folks having to use various methods; so it certainly is area dependent.
We had our water tested before moving here decades ago, and once since; all good to go. Testing isnt required (yet) every few years.
My folks put in a filter because of heavy lime deposits plugging the pipes and faucets. Then the filter was plugging all the time, what a hassle.

shingobeek
Member
# Posted: 15 Apr 2022 19:10
Reply 


Water quality of groundwater can be good and can be not very good at all! The surrounding land uses and landscape geology dictate the difference. The same soil materials that make it easier for you to pound in the sand point and allow water to be closer to the surface, also makes groundwater lateral movement easier, and therefore easier for pollutants to move towards well heads and harm you. Always get your water tested it is a PIA to do, find a certified lab, get the kit ($10-50 bucks), take the sample, send it in, get the results, figure out what it means.....but well worth it (no pun!) If you have a fairly large buffer around your place , no legacy industries within 5-10 miles, 85-90% natural landscapes, with no to little development typically you will test out fine. But groundwater is very tricky and can move laterally many miles in locations you could not imagine. Those of us that work in water quality world often say what happens on the land, ends up in the water.....in time......

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