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NovaDC
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 15:25
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So, we have decided to invest in a drilled well. I have spoken to a few drillers and been given some conflicting info.
What I would like to do is run the well with a DC pump (seen some 24v that would go beyond the projected depth - all neighbours have well no more than 140ft). This would be drilled before the cabin is built, while we stay in our RV.
I'd like to run this pump from lead acid batteries and initially charge them with either a gen/battery charger or a small solar system. I would then switch the pump on to supply water to a hose/tap.
When the cabin is complete I would like to keep the power setup the same, maybe increase solar/batteries if needed. But, I want to avoid cycling the well pump so, I am thinking a tank inside the cabin.
One driller insisted that I need a pressure tank. But this would turn the pump on when it reaches a certain psi in the tank. I would like to control when the pump is on or off to manage power consumption. He did say I can switch the pump off, but would this not risk someone draining all the water out of the tank and it having to be repressurized - or how could this be controlled? The other problem with a pressure tank is, for its size, you don't get a lot of water to draw. I only have a limited space inside the cabin for this. And, I think for a larger tank a certain flow rate is recommended.
The alternative I was thinking was, I turn on the pump when I want to fill a larger holding tank inside the cabin. Switch off the well pump. Draw off the holding tank with a small 115v transfer pump when the water is used. It will be fore 2 sinks and 1 shower (no toilet). The only downside is it will use some power, but the pumps I've been looking at, don't use much. Am I missing something here?
So, which plan would you recommend to keep things simple and controlled?
Thank you
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 15:29
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I would use a generator to run a standard deep well submersible. Have that fill your holding tank in the cabin. Use a 12v rv pump to pressurize your cabin plumbing.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 15:41
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I run a solar well, look up livestock well, it doesnt even use batteries, runs directly from solar power. 24V panels, volume is like your sink faucet, but can run all day to fill a holding tank.
I do have a transformer to run it with a generator is sky is overcast.
wellfront.jpg
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well_mit.jpg
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 15:53
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Quoting: Irrigation Guy I would use a generator to run a standard deep well submersible
Any specific reason for that?
The cabin won't have DC inside unless I set up another system.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 15:55
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech I run a solar well
That's great - just what I'm looking for. How deep is your well? Is it a 12v or 24v pump?
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 16:05
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Quoting: NovaDC Any specific reason for that? The cabin won't have DC inside unless I set up another system
I must have mis-read your post I thought you were powering with battery/solar long term. What are your long term power plans?
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 16:20
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Quoting: Irrigation Guy I must have mis-read your post I thought you were powering with battery/solar long term. What are your long term power plans?
The solar system would just be for the well pump - I suppose I could find a way to run a DC wire inside for a 12v transfer pump too if there was a benefit to that.
The cabin will be on an AC solar system and wire like a house.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 16:32
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We have used Grundfos deep well submersible pumps for about 25 years. Solar powered for about the last 15-16 years. No batteries on the submersible well pump portion of our system. The submersible pump runs when the sun shines and the water level switch is closed. If the storage tank is full that pump does not run. Grundos has a number of different size pumps with heads to 820 feet. Our pump is at 685 feet.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 16:35 - Edited by: ICC
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I keep getting 403 forbidden msgs..... ???
From the storage tank to points of use we have a more or less normal household pressure system. The cabin uses a 12 volt Shurflo like is used in RV's. Those pumps can be had in 12 or 24 VDC and 115 VAC
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 16:37
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Both the home and the cabin are solar-powered with batteries of course. But the well is strictly solar though we could fire up a generator if necessary.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 16:50
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Quoting: ICC If the storage tank is full that pump does not run. Grundos has a number of different size pumps with heads to 820 feet. Our pump is at 685 feet.
This sounds great - I'll check out Grundfos, I didn't realise they did DC pumps.
So, something I will probably figure out, but how does the pump shut off when the tank is full? Do you mean you leave the pump on and if there is sun and space in the tank, it will pump water?
When you say a normal household pressure system, what does that mean?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 17:43
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Quoting: NovaDC but how does the pump shut off when the tank is full? Do you mean you leave the pump on and if there is sun and space in the tank, it will pump water?
A float switch could be used. I use a self-built electronic circuit that measures the conductivity through the water between sets of brass contacts at different levels in the poly tank. That operates a small relay which in turn operates a larger relay that controls the Grundfos.
It's a 1200-gallon poly tank in a corner of the workshop. The pump shuts off at 1150 and turns back on at 700 so it may only run a couple of days a week. If the sun sets before the storage is full the relay system will go to sleep until the controller on the panel array that feeds the Grundfos once again is receiving power from the array. Then it carries on again while the sun shines.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 17:45
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Sounds great. Think I will have to look into how to replicate. Thanks!
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 17:54 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: NovaDC When you say a normal household pressure system, what does that mean?
"more or less normal" was my quote 
I use what is called a booster pump with a 40 gallon pressure tank with the pump on at 30 psi and off at 50 psi. Sort of like what's in the diagram image I copied...
I keep 700 in the storage tank to be sure there will be water readily available if the sunshine has gone south for a few days. We average no more than 50 to 60 gallons on a normal day; most often less
After that the system is just like what would be found in any house with sinks, toilets, etc fed by a utility system or std well.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 18:25
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Just to be sure, as the driller threw up some doubts... I don't need the pressure tank part? I can skip that bit and just use a small pump to boost from water storage to taps, like an rv? Water storage tank would be inside the house very close to all the things needing water.
Thanks again
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 20:09
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Plain and simple, you cant plan what pump to buy for a well that's not drilled yet. Dosnt matter how deep your neighbors wells are.
For instance my neighbors both under 500ft away. One has a 240ft and one has a 600ft well. Mine is 50ft.
But either way for a submersible well pump I would seriously look at a large well tank and running it via generator. It's a short duration high electrical demand item and it hardly pays to build a system for this type of thing. If you dont want to go out and start a generator everytime you want more water pressure get a generator with a remote start. I recently got one.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2023 21:41
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I can absolutely plan for it. I don't have to buy anything and plan the doesn't need to be set in stone - it can change if needs be. I have also seen solar wells that go very deep, so surely the concept is the same, IF I decide to go this route? I'd like to gain knowledge so I have a (flexible) plan in place and know what's possible.
What do you mean by a large well tank? A pressure tank? And what would be your reasoning for this? My generator serves another purpose and would be a pain to keep moving. A couple of solar panels would be cheaper than going out and buying a new remote start generator. Not using any fuel for any of this would be a big bonus.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2023 10:14
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Quoting: NovaDC What do you mean by a large well tank? A pressure tank? And what would be your reasoning for this? My generator serves another purpose and would be a pain to keep moving. A couple of solar panels would be cheaper than going out and buying a new remote start generator. Not using any fuel for any of this would be a big bonus.
It sounds like you alreaty have a plan and want to stick with it. Alot more is needed for a system to operate than just a couple of solar pannels
A large well/pressure tank is so the pump dosnt turn on as much. Starting draw can be quite high with any motor so this would benefit any type of system you build.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2023 10:56
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Quoting: Brettny It sounds like you alreaty have a plan and want to stick with it. Alot more is needed for a system to operate than just a couple of solar pannels A large well/pressure tank is so the pump dosnt turn on as much. Starting draw can be quite high with any motor so this would benefit any type of system you build.
Yes, thank you - it is explained above (maybe not very well) 
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2023 11:34 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: NovaDC Just to be sure, as the driller threw up some doubts... I don't need the pressure tank part? I can skip that bit and just use a small pump to boost from water storage to taps, like an rv?
The cabin has a much smaller storage tank but the cabin system is quite similar to that drawing of the house system. My cabin (and Bus/RV) have smaller water storage tanks and use Shurflo 4008 series water pumps with NO pressure tank.
The Shurflo RV pumps are designed to not need a pressure tank. In the RV industry they are referred to as an accumulator tank. These are quite small and are meant for use in situations where the RV water pump is short cycling on-off-on with less than 2 seconds off between being on as water is being drawn.
FWIW, the Shurflo in my cabin was installed about 2009. The one in my bus is older. Both have worked fine with only the need to clean the diaphragm chamber once or twice.
The Grundfos submersible pump we use has soft start. There is no high current surge. That places less stress on both the electrical and the plumbing systems.
The booster pump the home uses also has a soft start. Of course, soft starts mean electronic controls but that does not bother me. I like the reduced electrical needs and no sudden psi water pressure surges.
There are now also variable speed constant pressure pumps both for RV use and for residential use. These do not need a large pressure tank in the home. If I needed a new pump for any of my three uses I would look into these newer pumps.
You may find some well-drillers are too set in their ways to latch onto some of the newer tech. There is one guy around where I am who is like that. It doesn't pay to be set in one's ways, IMO. There are more ways to skin a cat than there used to be.
I love the solar-powered Grundfos. I bought it as a pre-configured system. It was a local-ish company but it closed a few years ago. All the parts are known brands with replacement parts available though, so that is not a problem at all as warranties have run out anyhow.
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NovaDC
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2023 11:49 - Edited by: NovaDC
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ICC - brilliantly explained, thank you. Think I now have everything I need to go and do more research and figure it out. I also spoke to the well guy again and explained what I was wanting to do, again and he gets it now. The reason for asking all the questions now though, was because there is a knock on effect with other systems and logistics. So, pleased everything is coming together. Of course - there will be bumps in the road and may have to rethink some things.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 2 Feb 2023 08:27
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Quoting: NovaDC That's great - just what I'm looking for. How deep is your well? Is it a 12v or 24v pump?
Its 178 feet deep, the static water level is 100 feet, the pump is down about 50 feet under water. I can fill a 7 gallon jug in about 5 minutes, maybe less.
My pump will run on anything between 12 to 36 volts and even a little more. My 2 panels are about 170 watts, on a mast, rotate to follow sun as needed.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 2 Feb 2023 08:31
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Quoting: NovaDC So, something I will probably figure out, but how does the pump shut off when the tank is full? Do you mean you leave the pump on and if there is sun and space in the tank, it will pump water?
Solar livestock well set up uses a float switch, so when tank is full, it shuts off. I do not use a float switch as I am not filling any tanks. I just full my jugs as needed. We do fill a large 55 gallon drum, just let ti fill, then transfer it to the holding tank above the shower where its painted black to prevent algae and also absorb heat, but also have a propane water heater if its too cold.
duckduckgo the words "livestock wells", this is what you need.
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