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pabear89
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 12:43
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Have my 24x40 cabin shell built and at the stage of running the wiring for power.
I am thinking of running 12v lighting and 120v outlets for the needed points for appliances, fridge,micro,coffee ect.
Having that said is it better to run the 12v style lights over the standard 120v system?
Main concern is battery drawdown factor.
will be using a 6k or 13k solar kit for powering the cabin. Is it a good idea to go with the 12v lights or stick with doing all with the standrd 120v light fixtures and just running everything thru the inverter.
At the blank page point and wish to do this once, Chance of ever getting grid power is never going to happen.
Open to ideas. thanks.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 13:52
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Running 12V will be slightly more efficient.. BUT a ton more work and be more difficult to pass code.
For me, I just wired everything up 110V following the codes. Everything runs off the inverter, backed up by a generator. MUCH MUCH simpler. No dealing with different wire types, 12V fuses/breakers, 12V fixtures, ect... and with a quality inverter your efficiency loses are like 5-7%.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 13:54
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P.S. if this is you first solar install, I suggest you start reading ASAP (DIY solar forum is a good start). There is tons to learn with tons of different ways to do things. Its all a trade off, but understanding where those trade offs make sense is key!
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 14:55
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BTDT
16x24 cabin
Did straight 12v, then a mix of 12v with some added in 120vac from an inverter then got smart and simplified my life with all 120vac. As Trav says, wire up to code standards even though you will feed the main panel initially from a generator (ours is an inverter/gen 1700/2000w peak and will run a microwave). Once it works fine off that you can start adding in other power sources such as a battey-bank and a Pure Sine Wave (only!) inverter, then add in solar to charge the bat-bank. Done in stages like that makes sure it all works in an orderly fashion yet still gets you power to 'live' comfy.
The line loss is Huge with 12vdc on a structure as large as yours requiring heavy gauge copper wiring, switches and fixtures. It just became too much trouble for me to be messing about with 2 diff wiring systems. If you were just a tiny place with small wants/needs it could be fine, but since you are going to have 120vac anyway just commit to it.
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pabear89
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 16:14 - Edited by: pabear89
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I see where your coming from and jumping off the fence and laying out the cost of doing both is more work than needed.
Looking at a complete package system, 13000 kw120/240 from 2-6500w inverters and a 19kwh battery bank charged by 18-390w panels.
Already have a gen set for backup.
This should give me enough with some room to spare.
Checked out the solar forums yes good info too.
So guess I'm commiting to it before I need to be commited to the rubber room.
(followed the ad from shop solar on here)
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gsreimers
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 16:29
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I must be missing something and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like a lot of power. We have a 24 by 32 foot cabin with 2 12 x 12 bunkhouses and a 12x12 shower house.
We have led lights and run an electric fridge. I have 6 360 watt panels, a 4000 watt inverter, and 4 3600 watt batteries and I never run out of power.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2023 20:12 - Edited by: gcrank1
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Perhaps time for some serious 'conservation of use' reassessments?
When 'on grid' we can be lazy, even sloppy, then we get used to doing it that way. Going off grid is a good time to cultivate a different mindset.
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pabear89
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2023 10:19
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power unit size is not only for cabin , but also for workshop and water system.
its not a recreational but full time live in, not being lazy but comfortable and able to use my tools ect.
Moved to the woods to get away from the cities, Not to go back to the point of living in a cave.
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curious
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2023 10:37
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Quoting: pabear89 full time live in
Then don't even think about doing anything low voltage DC. Purchase nothing but the best equipment you can afford and that will supply the amount of power you need the first time you build your system. After all, you are the power company.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2023 10:57
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I'm offgrid solar powered.
My home is 24'x20' with Loft. It is Rural & Remote near Algonquin Park Ontario Canada. We see -35C/-31F to 40C/104F temps and of course in winter a LOT of snow (still have 3M/9' snowbanks at my house) and winter sun hours can seriously suck !
My system is 24V with LFP Batteries, using a Samlex Pure Sine Low Frequency EVO-4024 Inverter/Charger providing 120V.
I wired the house to code standard 120V and also provisioned for 240V for future-proofing. The 240V provisioning is to allow for EV Charger, induction cooktop and/or other things as required. This worked out to be the most cost-effective solution and there is nothing that is missing. I can run all my stuff including 3HP Compressor & 120V MIG Welder and more without issue or complication. With good LED Lighting and the efficiencies afforded by modern appliances & devices there is everything to gain and little to sacrifice nowadays.
Examples from my system:
Standard running power pulled during the day is only 6.5A From Battery Bank. If the Fridge is running then it's 9A pulled. With Heating (radiant floor) Fridge etc, then I am pulling 11A.
- Panasonic 1200W Inverter Microwave pulls 74A.
- Oster Coffee Maker with thermal carafe (no warmer) pulls 51A.
- Oster Digital Toaster pulls 55A.
- Well Pump a GrundFos SQ5 120V Softstart starts at 550W(23A? from Battery) and stages up to 1100W (45.8A? from Battery) by the time it reaches 55PSI Cutoff. Soft Start = No Start Surge.
Hope it helps to give you more info.
Good Luck.
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pabear89
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2023 13:25
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Have looked thru many of these(yours to) posts here and used the information to work up my set up.
While some may think my leaning towards the large system is overkill, I have many tools that require 220v to use.
My concern is not drawing down the battey bank when using them as i sometimes get wrapped up in a projects that causes extended power usage.
For now its been running the gen set and fuel costs add up quickly.
Goal is to not have to use the gen at all.
Yes the initial cost lay out seems high but running the fuel bill numbers it can be recovered in under 5 years and then on its close to free with just standard maintenance.
Further comparison of led lights have made me go the full 120v wiring route and using standard fixtures with upgraded bulbs.
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redwolfguild
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2023 15:18
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Quoting: pabear89 Goal is to not have to use the gen at all. Yes the initial cost lay out seems high but running the fuel bill numbers it can be recovered in under 5 years and then on its close to free with just standard maintenance.
You are on the right track and may want to find a nice fuel-efficient generator to just charge batteries if you are having a heavy use day.
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Alpine_Junky
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2023 17:29
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Steve S gave great advice - future proof. Be it a well pump or whatever. That said.
Wire the house as you would for 120v -- low draw LED lights are the way to go and this path offers other benefits.
-You can add an inverter of your choice and batteries to power them; they need be nothing fancy. If you run 12v lights, now you always have to have a way to produce 12V. Upgrading to that nice 48v inverter you found a deal on? Look to step down to 12V. And the cost of 12V bulbs offset any gains. Plus you can not have many on a circuit.
The other gains are resale value; having a simple not patched together system is of value.
If you end up going with any kind of water pumping, it is going to do you well to use A/C to power it. Yes, DC pumps are technically more efficient -- but they cost more and perform less. It takes longer to replace the juice you run the batteries down pumping for a shower than it does just to run the gen to power your AC pump or better yet, redeploy the money saved to a better inverter / solar / genny.
The goal of not using the genny at all is lofty and expensive. The most cost effective method is a properly sized solar system using DIY lithium batteries supplemented by genny power for low sun days. You get all the benefits / economies of scale of standardization.
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