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ICC
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2023 18:21 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: Nobadays I'm not quite sure why you feel buying quality equipment is "throwing money"??
I bought an Outback charge controller for our cabin 20 years ago. It is still completely functional, though we relocated it to my brothers cabin several years later when he built. (His cabin solar needs are bigger than mine and I switched to a Midnite Solar controller I got as part of a new model test program. It still works, too. Both have been a "set it & forget it" product. I love that.)
I am fortunate in being able to buy quality equipment and not worry about paying for the basic necessities of life.
If I was building a new system today I very well might go Victron.
-izzy
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travellerw
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2023 20:10 - Edited by: travellerw
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Quoting: Nobadays I'm convinced! And since Victron just lowered prices I was able to get the 150/35 off Amazon for $184.00, regularly $300.00.
That is a great controller and a damn good price. I think you will be super happy.
Your Victron Phoenix 1200 has like a 10W standing draw when turned fully on. I have the 375W version that I used when we are away. It just sips the power compared to our Growatt.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2023 23:14
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If I were building a new solar system from the ground up, I'd use all Victron, except for the batteries 
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travellerw
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2023 23:34
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Quoting: Steve_S If I were building a new solar system from the ground up, I'd use all Victron, except for the batteries
They are pretty overpriced IMHO... I recently helped someone build a system (for a burning man art display) and we used Renogy LFP batts (first time for me). They worked amazing for that scenario, but not without issues. There were strange "sleeping" bugs with the batts. I feel like firmware issues with some of them (and they wouldn't take any updates.)
I think they may be ok in cabin scenario where you could reboot them if required.. Not so much in a critical scenario like a boat. The price was right though.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 01:15
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I presently have 2 midnite solar classic controllers, associated E-Panels etc, samlex EVO 4000W Inverter/Charger, none of which is dollar light. Victron pricing is comparable and a homogeneous line that can also interconnect & be software controlled & managed.
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paulz
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 10:02
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Quoting: travellerw The Epever has other issues too. Its algorithm struggles with anything but perfect conditions. Just very slow to find the MPPT
Another Epever user here. Could I expect a noticeable improvement if I switched it out?
Conditions: 30 panels under alternating tree shade, peak afternoon maybe 6 in direct light, switching to other panels every half hour.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 10:19
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I'm a big fan of Victron equipment! I designed and installed a system for a neighbor 3 years ago, he wanted a "no hassle" system, flip the switch, no messing about. All Victron and Battle Born batteries (insulated box and heat mats as they are in a unheated garage) and it has lived up to our expectations. The ease of setting parameters on the Victron equipment is unparalleled!
My issue is a bit different. I'm needing to squeeze every bit of power out of my batteries that I can. Snow on my panels is inevitable as they are on a fixed ground mount. If it was possible to adjust them to vertical, I would. Snow generally slides within a day or two so my biggest issue is my battery bank supplying power during those days. I have roughly 3 days autonomy. If there are back to back storms, I will loose power and everything will shut down. Not a big deal, I just loose my ability to monitor my security camera.
The Victron inverter and charge controller are much more efficient at their respective jobs and infinitely programmable to the parameters I choose. The inverter will shut down at 23.8v at the ~45% level then it will wake at 24.3v when the batteries are on their way back up. Nearly all of the cheaper inverters have a ....SET.... LBCO at 19v for a 24v system, that is beyond dead, and almost ruined my batteries last winter.
I'm over paneled so have not had an issue charging my bank with the Epever, that said even with the inverter turned of I had noticed a voltage drop in the batteries. Travellerw has confirmed my suspicion that the idle draw of the Epever may be part of that equation. My understanding is the Victron SCC has one of the lowest idle draw in the industry and the fastest MPPT algorithms. Again, I can easily set the parameters I want via Bluetooth and an app on my phone. I'm pretty sure I'm going to like this new inverter!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 12:27
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At the sale price it looks to be a no brainer to me IF one only needs that 'size' of unit (I have not looked to see what else they may have on sale).
I make that conclusion from my past experience of spending more than that price on dumber stuff.....
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ICC
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 13:01 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: paulz Another Epever user here. Could I expect a noticeable improvement if I switched it out?
A big part of this decision will come down to how your panels are connected. For example, if there are 3 panels in series and just a little shade from a tree or whatever falls on one panel, that causes the output from all 3 to fall a large amount. OTOH, if 3 panels are connected in parallel, only the shaded panel has reduced output. I don't know if there would any real improvement from switching from Epever to anything else for partially shaded panels in series.
There are other factors why series may offer some advantages over parallel.
-izzy
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paulz
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 14:30
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Quoting: ICC A big part of this decision will come down to how your panels are connected
3 panels in series, 10 sets.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 15:43
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Quoting: paulz 3 panels in series, 10 sets.
Are they on the ground or roof mounted? Like ICC mentioned a small amount of shade on a single panel kills the output of that whole series string.
Over about 60V input the only real advantage to series is smaller/cheaper/easier wiring. However, in your case, I wouldn't go to the trouble and expense to change it at this point! 3 by 10 is actually a pretty good trade off in cost to performance. I would do whatever I could to reduce the shade on them though.
I can only speak from my experience, but I have real world numbers where I switched from Epever to Victron and over a 16 month period the Victron harvested 18% more energy on average. On cloudy days it was absolutely noticeable how much more it was harvesting.
There are other advantages too. Victron being fully programmable is amazing. Open source and documented protocols for communication (very easy DIY stuff with arduino or other micros). The GX touch panel that is open source and can be DIY built on Raspberry Pi. Good support and community forums.
All good stuff at pretty much the same price as Epever now!
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travellerw
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 16:26
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Holy Moley.. I didn't realize the prices had dropped that much... So out with my India/China no name unit... In with a Victron!
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paulz
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 16:38
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Quoting: travellerw they on the ground or roof mounted? Like
Combo. Just took these photos, 1pm sunny day. First from the cabin looking south west. 3 panels on overhang above door, 3 more on roof. Bulk are on the shed visible above and uphill. Some face south, most west. As I said in an hour there may be a few more in the sun but it won’t last very long. Epever says 60 volts 3 amps to bank.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 16:49
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Im amazed that you have done as well as you do under those conditions, Paul. Lot to be said for the way you have balanced your loads and over-paneled enough to keep up.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 17:09
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Solar Panels are not all the same, there are many varieties in production, some do pretty well under shade conditions. Shingled cell panels for example do it quite well. The two gotcha are, these are 350W and up, higher voltage, and a typical 400W Monofacial is 42" Wide by 75" high +/-. The higher cost Perc panels are even better but next to impossible to get because they're all going into solar farms.
Far too many just look at prices and basic numbers, while not considering the environment the panels will be used in. Did it myself and lessons learned "katching". The price differences between the types isn't much really (on a per watt basis), the biggest issue is being able to get what you need.
In Paulz case, "Gee Wiz Man !" in your case I dunno if panel types would do much more. I also think it would be a crime to cut any of those beauties. My forest is quite different. It really is surprising that you get what you do out of that system in that forest, very cool !.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2023 17:48
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Quoting: paulz Combo. Just took these photos, 1pm sunny day. First from the cabin looking south west. 3 panels on overhang above door, 3 more on roof. Bulk are on the shed visible above and uphill. Some face south, most west. As I said in an hour there may be a few more in the sun but it won’t last very long. Epever says 60 volts 3 amps to bank.
Holy crap on a cracker.. That is one tough solar environment. I'm definitely not suggesting you cut any of those beautiful trees.
If you have some money to burn, maybe switch to a Victron and see if there is any difference for you. You can also keep the Epever as backup! I think you would see a difference. Plus you could do an easy Arduino project to throw the data up in the cloud. That may help you optimize things (although I'm not sure what the heck you could optimize in those conditions). At the very least you will have cool graphs to look at ;)
Otherwise just keep plugging along with what you have. It seems to be working for you.
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paulz
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2023 10:38 - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks guys. Learning a bit on the Victrons, either a 100 or 150v? I’m under100 in series, guess that would do, and a bunch cheaper looks like. I have hit 30+ amps in summer. And they are 12 or 24v, not both like the Epever? I don’t have any 24, water pump, modem, cooler all 12.
Hard to change horses, I’m well dialed in with the Epever M50 staring me in the face. Since I moved the cooler outside and only turn the modem on when needed I been saving juice, only ran the genny once last week for laundry and TV
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travellerw
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# Posted: 12 Nov 2023 12:07
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Quoting: paulz Thanks guys. Learning a bit on the Victrons, either a 100 or 150v? I’m under100 in series, guess that would do, and a bunch cheaper looks like. I have hit 30+ amps in summer. And they are 12 or 24v, not both like the Epever? I don’t have any 24, water pump, modem, cooler all 12.
If you go over 30A, the Victron would just max out at those Amps. I would probably go up to the 50A version. Depending on which unit you buy they are either 12V/24V (both) or 12V/24V/36V/48V. You can see all the specs here.
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-BlueSolar-and-SmartSolar-cha rge-controller-overview-EN.pdf
I would suggest you go with SmartSolar and not BlueSolar. The SmartSolar has Bluethooth built in. The SmartSolar 100/50 is only $185 on Amazon. That is an amazing value.
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