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travellerw
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2024 12:52
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Well my experiment with off brand solar controllers has officially ended. As some of you may remember, I used EPEVER in the past and had issue with them, so I wanted to try something else. I ended up settling on a Solafans MPPT and a Growatt all-in-one.
Long story short, both have now been replaced with Victron now.
While the Solafans worked well and had a decent MPPT algorithm, it had very high nightly stand-by draw. Plus its HUGE compared to Victron and took up a ton of room in my equipment enclosure. So I changed it out after about a year of use.
As to the Growatt, I was never happy with it. It was very limited in the settings and didn't go to a high enough voltage for FLA batts (at 48V). So I wasn't too sad when the MPPT portion died after a year and 2 months of use. Its still works as an inverter and battery charger, which I will continue to use it for. The inverter portion is a beast and easily runs all our high power devices like AC, saws, compressor, log splitter and even my welder.
Anyway, the Victron controllers are just so much better. The software is years ahead and works so much better. The fact that you can create a network and all the controllers will "talk" and act like a single controller is amazing. Only time will tell, but it feels like I'm harvesting more power (maybe its a placebo affect).
Its the age old story.. buy once, cry once. However, Victron has really come down in price and the difference is not that big anymore.
(p.s. There are other quality brands that are not Victron. I'm just partial to Victron as I have installed many and never had an issue. However Midnight, Morningstar, Mastervolt are all quality units I have worked with too.)
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2024 13:27
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I like my Midnite SCC's & Samlex Inverter which is all great stuff but I wish I could have gone Victron from the start (wasn't available yet when I started). If I were building a solar system today, it would be Victron all the way... I'd also do 240VAC instead of 120V from the start. I prewired for 240V but at the time a split-phase 240V Inverter was harder to get & far more $.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2024 17:53
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Quoting: Steve_S I prewired for 240V but at the time a split-phase 240V Inverter was harder to get & far more $
I too wanted a 240 inverter, but couldn't swallow the costs. For the 2 items I have that need 240V, I just use cheap transformers. It was way cheaper and the losses are super small since dry transformers are about %96 efficient. So far no complaints, the transformers have worked flawlessly (and we ran the AC a ton last summer).
I suspect that Growatt will eventually die and I will be in the market for something. Maybe I will swallow the costs at that point, but I doubt it as my cheapness will get the best of me ;)
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2024 19:27
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This solar journey sure has a learning and expense curve! So much shoulda/coulda/woulda......
My once decent 600w 12v legacy system is pretty much worthless around here for resale unless I throw in the lfp's at a discounted price 
But now I see the truth of a 24v system would take as much work, marginal increase in cost and have so much more potential. And if I had that maybe Id be looking at 48v the same way? Though the cost for that would NOT be marginal.
I expect you will, like so many others, be happy with the Victron. Id be smart to start where you have ended up if I had to start over.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 07:26
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Ahh yes, so much "Should'a, Could'a, Would'a" along the long path... get's worse with a guy like me in a way...
I have SO MANY Spare Parts now... Assorted battery management systems, relays, contactors and so many "bits"... No "Solar / Electronics Flea Markets" around... Now that I am finalizing out my systems there is going to be even more surplus because this also means upgrades for some things...
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 08:22
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Quoting: Steve_S like my Midnite SCC's & Samlex Inverter which is all great stuff but I wish I could have gone Victron from the start (wasn't available yet when I started). If I were building a solar system today, it would be Victron all the way... I'd also do 240VAC instead of 120V from the start. I prewired for 240V but at the time a split-phase 240V Inverter was harder to get & far more $.
Do you think victron is that good? Victron price wise is only about 10-20% more vs Epever.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 08:34
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After Victron price updates (reductions in many cases) they are an even better deal. The simple fact that it all interconnects and can be monitored, managed easily enough with their software is a Huge Plus. Peace of Mind has a value but that depends on the individual and how important that is for them.
I am just starting to build one of my new Battery Packs (I've got a few to do now) and I ordered this with a JKBMS-Inverter Edition which will connect all the packs together for management etc and these even have the Victron protocol stack to interact with Vcictron and several other products.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 09:22
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Quoting: Brettny Do you think victron is that good? Victron price wise is only about 10-20% more vs Epever.
Yes....infinitely adjustable. My shop system I did on the cheap, 4 x 6v golf cart batteries, EPever MPPT, SCC and Giandel 24/2000 inverter. It worked.
My tale of woe and why I switched to Victron.
I tried to leave it on last winter to power my Starlink so I would have camera access. Snow storms/ snow on the panels means sometimes I would run out of battery capacity before recharge. So the Giandel inverter has a set/fixed/not adjustable LBCO of 19v, way too low for a 24v system. At one point last winter it hit that low, inverter shut off, AND the EPever SCC then decided at 19v this was a 12v system so now it was OVERCHARGED and stopped charging the batteries. I will also add the Giandel inverter, as most cheap inverters had a huge idle draw. The Victron SCC and the Inverter are easily adjusted via a phone app. The SCC has a great algorithm for capturing power - partly cloudy days is where it really shines - and the inverter has the lowest idle draw in the industry, PLUS the parameters are easily adjusted so it will "go to sleep" when the LBCO is hit and it will "wake up" at a set level of charge and go back to work.
We have been impressed this winter with Starlink up time. It has most definitely been up and running more hours than down. The big plus is my new set of AGM batteries have been looked after by the Victron equipment. BTW, we have all Schneider equipment in the cabin. It is robust and will undoubtedly work for years. That said parameter adjustments are quite limited and entails running through menus on the SCP....AND without buying the SCP you have very limited control. Yeah, Victron.
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paulz
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 10:56
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Quoting: travellerw it had very high nightly stand-by
Great write up. Thanks. I've read so many great things about the Victron now (here) I sure wish I had gotten them. But years ago when I was just getting started in solar they cost substantially more than the Epeves I bought.
I have two Tracer 40BNs, one in the cabin and one in the shop 200’ away. They’ve been reliable enough (pre-LI settings unfortunately) but I have disconnected the shop one this winter, it seems to drain the one lead acid battery at night, even though the spec says 60Ma self consumption. I searched DIY forum, found no others mentioning this.
Solar has picked up at the cabin in the last month for some reason, sun rising higher and longer maybe. Haven’t had to run the genny charger much. Nice to watch TV, run the microwave a bit.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 11:42
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Quoting: Brettny Do you think victron is that good? Victron price wise is only about 10-20% more vs Epever.
When I was consulting I dealt with a ton of Victron gear. Mostly solar controllers, inverter/chargers and transformers. I probably installed 50 solar controllers in that time and never had a single issue. I'm still in contact with many of those people and I only know of 1 failure in the 6 years since I installed it.
I have actual data from my own boat showing 2 years with Epever and then 2 years with Victron. With Victron we harvested %20 more energy.
However, its really the software that puts them ahead. Their MPPT algorithm is pretty much perfect. Their app is well designed and generally works perfect (there can be issues with initial setup and bluetooth, but a phone reboot usually solves that). The fact that everything networks and talks to each other is amazing. Finally, they embrace open source and have released all their standards allowing makers to create pretty much anything you can imagine.
Now with all that praise, I do have one complaint. They can be electrically noisy. This is usually not a problem in terrestrial installs, but on boats its killer for VHF or SSB communications.
Quoting: paulz I have two Tracer 40BNs, one in the cabin and one in the shop 200’ away. They’ve been reliable enough (pre-LI settings unfortunately) but I have disconnected the shop one this winter, it seems to drain the one lead acid battery at night, even though the spec says 60Ma self consumption. I searched DIY forum, found no others mentioning this.
I replace an Epever that had a similar issue. Turns out one of the bridge rectifiers had failed causing it to draw large amounts of current even when sleeping. A DC clamp meter is the easy way to check the draw. If you don't have one, you can wire a multimeter in series (only at night when current is low or you will blow the multimeter fuse).
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 11:51
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Quoting: Nobadays Snow storms/ snow on the panels means sometimes I would run out of battery capacity before recharge.
Just wondering if you have tried any solutions for the snow. Some people around here swear by RainX or Armor-All. Others tip the panels completely vertical in winter and just accept the lower power output.
My setup is not adjustable so the vertical thing is not an option for me (although our panels are already at 63 deg due to our latitude). The snow usually sluffs off after a day or two, but I'm wondering if something could help it along.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 12:10
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Quoting: travellerw but I'm wondering if something could help it along.
We don't get a lot of snow. But when we do, I take a garden sprayer, and put winter formula windshield fluid, shoot it up on the panels and that will loosen the snow or ice, and it slides right off.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 16:38
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I have s gambrel roof facing south. My plan for snow is going to be to put half my pannels on the steep section of roof and the other half on the top section. I'm undecided if I'm going to buy a second CC yet.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 16:48
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I think Id use 2 scc, Brett. That should maximize your charging in all conditions and seasons with a fixed array.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 17:24
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Yup.. I second Gcrank1s suggestion. A single CC will struggle in that situation unless the panels are connected in parallel(not ideal for wiring runs of any distance).
This why I went with a ground based install (I had the room). If I'm at the cabin I can just go brush the panels off. Our Gambrel is 28 feet at the peak so brushing anything up there pretty much requires a lift.
Its when I'm not there and watching the voltage drop that I really wished the snow would go away.
Quoting: darz5150 We don't get a lot of snow. But when we do, I take a garden sprayer, and put winter formula windshield fluid, shoot it up on the panels and that will loosen the snow or ice, and it slides right off.
I'm going to try this next winter. I wonder if trying to "sheet" it under the snow would cause it to slide off. If it works, it wouldn't be too hard to rig up a pump and sprayer that could be triggered over the internet through the cloud.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 18:33
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Quoting: travellerw it wouldn't be too hard to rig up a pump and sprayer that could be triggered over the internet
That's a good idea really. You can get 12 volt car wiper fluid pumps for less than $10 bucks.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 19:16 - Edited by: Nobadays
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Quoting: travellerw Just wondering if you have tried any solutions for the snow. Some people around here swear by RainX or Armor-All.
I have tried Rain-X and I do believe it helps a little. But it's a yearly application. I just wait for the snow to melt.
Edit: not sure where that 120vac came from. Sorry for any confusion!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2024 21:16
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I used Rain-X on my motorcycle helmet shield a season, it did help the rain slide off for better visibility, never tried riding in snow to test it.....
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Brettny
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2024 06:00
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My systems loads are turned off when I'm not there. No reason to use power when theres no one there.
I'm planing on running 3 pannels in series with a total voltage of 114v. I'm going to run each array via there own wires. I dont want to cut my self short in the future.
A ground array wouldnt work in my situation as I'm surrounded by trees so the height the roof supplies it a real benefit.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2024 12:07
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Quoting: Brettny My systems loads are turned off when I'm not there. No reason to use power when theres no one there. I'm planing on running 3 pannels in series with a total voltage of 114v. I'm going to run each array via there own wires. I dont want to cut my self short in the future.
We have a internet router, an alarm system and multiple cameras that run while we are not there. Gives me peace of mind to monitor things.
Question about your install. Do you mean 3 panels on the upper and 3 on the lower part of the roof (essentially 2 strings)? Each string in series at 114V ran down to a point where you connect in parallel?
You wouldn't want to put panels in different locations in series as the different lux between those 2 locations will cause VERY poor performance. The lower lux panel(s) will pull the whole array down. Unlike shading it will be all day/every day!
Also, consider wiring. Every inch of wire induces losses (and they are significant over feet). You can overcome the losses with wire gauge, but at some point the costs and amount of work don't make sense (as you are essentially running welding cable). Higher voltage = lower losses but even at 114V you will be shocked at the losses (remember its DC not AC). There are quite a few wire gauge calculators on the internet. Just remember when putting in your length of wire you need to put both the positive and negative lengths (the total amount of wire that will be used). The goal is to keep the losses under 3% (ideally %2). (114V@5A over 14 gauge will loose %3 over 40ft)
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2024 15:34
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I have to add, that one should be aware that for every Fuse, Breaker, Terminal or Lug, also adds resistance and contributes to overall Line Losses. Collectively that can add up pretty fast without realizing it.
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Dmitrapko
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2024 11:50 - Edited by: Dmitrapko
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I use a 24kW off grid solar Ballarat system for my cabin. It includes Renogy solar panels, a Renogy charge controller, deep cycle batteries, and an inverter. The system is designed to provide power for lights, appliances, and other electrical needs in my cabin without relying on the grid. It's been reliable and efficient, allowing me to enjoy off-grid living with minimal maintenance.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2024 12:57
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Quoting: Dmitrapko I use a 24kW off-grid solar system for my cabin. It includes Renogy solar panels, a Renogy charge controller, deep cycle batteries, and an inverter. The system is designed to provide power for lights, appliances, and other electrical needs in my cabin without relying on the grid. It's been reliable and efficient, allowing me to enjoy off-grid living with minimal maintenance.
Holy Shirtballs.. 24kW is enough to power a small town. Are you sure its not 2.4kW? A 24kW system would need about 24 Sq meters (260 sq feet). So 12M long by 2M high (or 40ft long by 6.5ft high).
Either way I would be interested in the details. What charge controller (model), what type of batteries, inverter model.
I have a Renogy charge controller on my trailer and its has been "ok". Its MPPT algorithm is just "alright", but pretty lazy. On cloudy days it hunts a lot and wastes quite a bit of power. However its been 2 seasons and its reliable. It also seems to have a pretty low power draw when sleeping.
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