| << . 1 . 2 . |
| Author |
Message |
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 24 Apr 2025 12:27pm
Reply
Quoting: paulz Looks good. So red and black to the remote, common to ground, coil to normally open. Turn the remote on, powers up the relay, connects coil to ground?
Exactly.. the only problem is you are now holding 2 relays open with the power from the generator you are killing. You may need to play with capacitor values to get the timing right so the generator actually stops.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 25 Apr 2025 06:15pm - Edited by: paulz
Reply
At the grid today and the new relay arrived. The remote was with me in the truck so I rigged up a quick test with an ohm meter. All works. Also I was able to walk down the street (flat paved road, easy) about the length of cabin to genny to test the remote distance, that’s good too.
The capacitors I have at the cabin shop are just old stuff off who knows what. Maybe you can suggest one to buy. Thanks Trav.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 03:52pm
Reply
Tried it on the compressor. It works, mostly! But when I hit the remote, it cuts off then sputters back when the 110 dies, as you predicted.
Dug these capacitors out of the shop. Any one I should try, or 3 at once.  just hook up to the 110 out, either direction?
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 04:51pm
Reply
Quoting: paulz Dug these capacitors out of the shop. Any one I should try, or 3 at once. just hook up to the 110 out, either direction?
Try the biggest one first.
It shouldn't matter which way you put it since its AC. However, it just dawned on me that you may need a diode. Otherwise something else on the 110V circuit could suck the juice away instead of the remote.
I'm guessing the 110V is also powering the pump?
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 05:07pm - Edited by: travellerw
Reply
Ok.. I have been thinking about this and maybe we are going about it the wrong way for you. The 120V and limited electronics knowledge might hinder us.
Another path would be to use a linear actuator that you mount in a way where it can flip the toggle switch to kill the engine. Most are 12V, but can be powered with a small power supply (like would be used on a piece of electronics equipment). Anything 10-18V works.
That way you push the button the remote, it powers up the actuator, which then moves forwards (or backwards), flipping the switch. Its simpler as you don't need a delay.
Actuators are $20 on Amazon and a power supply can be bought for like $5 at a second hand shop (or you might have one just lying around)
Only downside is that you would need to physically reset it. If you are ambitious, you could probably rig up a spring to reset it!
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 05:16pm
Reply
Actually.. a better/cheaper option would be a 12V door lock actuator. They are like $5 each.
https://www.amazon.com/Zone-2-Pack-Universal-Power-Actuator/dp/B00PWLJ2OC?crid=1OMRFL 6DR08T&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.O5NYunb-7D7U1_2e1EU1knRaRsD2MhWTai2WXPhwukSjmXaDBm9B-20-hJpIE RxT4lSIuh5YmnRRp8-IzpUdLoVOba_g_7Y9zgJxp-lDBCGHuEVUjUe_m8fOjFDhZvxv_OugErzblzPOmAeoI1 QWOMAfU_AF6i52PCvvZDnzG1zfEzQreDpki00ZOuKMquvsZmtx-h9FgsFXEq_41824KFSSxyzL2QRmIeqP0l_ -fFc.IUrOMJM98u9_ZaInF6kyn5BvTxJj3nUdaCyPNu8fR84&dib_tag=smacab-20&keywords=door%2Block%2Bac tuator&qid=1745874861&sprefix=door%2Block%2Bactuator%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-3&th=1
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 07:45pm
Reply
That may be the way to go. Tried the capacitor today, all it did was fry the little alligator clip jumper wires. Too much current for them? I can try again tomorrow with heavier wires screwed on. Or punt and get the door things.
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 08:02pm
Reply
That tells me something is pulling hard on that current. I bet its the pump. If it was just the remote, then you clips would have been more than enough.
I don't think you will see any difference with the capacitor as the pump motor will drain it quickly.
|
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 28 Apr 2025 08:22pm - Edited by: paulz
Reply
I had the pump unplugged. It’s 220 anyway. Nothing in the 110 socket but the remote. I’ll try again tomorrow with new wires. Maybe the alligator clips touched each other with the vibration.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 01:15pm
Reply
I just tried those 2 black condensers plugged into just my portable power supply. The larger one powered up no problem, 110 on the volt meter jumpered on, but the second I turned the power off it dropped to zero. How long should it take to hold a charge?
Different story on the smaller one. The second I plugged it in, big spark and power supply shut itself off. I guess it’s internally shorted, which explains the burnt jumper clips yesterday.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 02:07pm
Reply
Im starting to get worried about you......
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 02:28pm - Edited by: paulz
Reply
Believe me, I’m careful around this AC stuff. I have no real experience with capacitors (beyond points and condensers). Been fun playing with this though. Really an unnecesary project, just saves me some hiking. Hopefully find a future need for this remote dingus, like the coffee pot.
On the bright side, the little R2 power box has been getting quite a workout last couple days. This and also running a disc angle grinder cutting the rebar for the railroad tie project. 2 more and that’s done..
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 02:41pm - Edited by: travellerw
Reply
Quoting: paulz I just tried those 2 black condensers plugged into just my portable power supply. The larger one powered up no problem, 110 on the volt meter jumpered on, but the second I turned the power off it dropped to zero. How long should it take to hold a charge?
Depending on the rating of the cap will depend on how long it will hold a charge. However, they charge up pretty much instantly.
Caps aren't like batteries, the moment they are disconnected from power the voltage begins to drop. For a project like this, you want a cap big enough to hold the voltage above 80V (or so) for 2 seconds. That should give enough time to fully kill the engine.
I have never built a kill kit that is 120V, so I really have no idea the rating to use. We used 4700uf @ 16V on our portable generators. That held things closed for about 3.5 seconds. However a 4700uf cap in 120V rating would be HUGE.
P.S. Yes please be careful. Although caps drop voltage quickly, they can delivery lethal shocks easily.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 04:33pm
Reply
A pal, retired elevator mechanic, has these to offer., but the UFs look low compared to yours.
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 08:42pm
Reply
That is the problem with 120V stuff. Those are motor start or motor run caps. Designed for a different purpose than power smoothing.
I'm not sure those will provide enough delay, but I would try.
|
|
darz5150
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Apr 2025 10:16pm
Reply
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2025 07:10am
Reply
Ha, thanks Darz. Hoping to have my elevator pal bring those capacitors out and help try them, (and someone to call the ambulance lol).
Years ago he knew a guy who had the Golden Gate Bridge contract and got me a ride up the top of a tower, super high above both the traffic below and the ocean below that. You wouldn’t know it but those towers are cavernous inside, with a machine shop, office, and elevator. Very scarcely walking across the top outside with shaking from traffic and the wind. Wood I do it again today? No way, but a good reminder of the great things built 100 years ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2025 02:49pm
Reply
Hold on… I realized that since I had the little R2 power box out testing capacitors, why not drag it down to the generator and run the remote off that. Worked beautifully!
Next question is how long will the power box stay turned on with just the relays plugged in? I brought it back up, still turned on with the relays plugged in. Wattage on it shows zero. We’ll see how long it stays on. Friend’s capacitors still awaiting a try, but not this week.
I rarely use the R2, no reason it can’t sit down there.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2025 07:44pm
Reply
I think Id use any old half worn out starting battery. When the gen runs have it charge the bat too.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2025 08:21pm
Reply
Not a bad idea but the remote relay I bought is AC in and out (so it could be powered by the gen). I could buy a DC unit, only 20 bucks. And I got plenty of half dead FLAs, not to mention all those new Trumpidy do da LFPs I bought at year end.
But my, as I posted in the R2 thread, I programmed it to shut completely off after I’ve shut the gen off, so it can just sit there until next time, unless needed for something else. Plus I still have more new large capacitors to try instead.
|
|
travellerw
Member
|
# Posted: 2 May 2025 10:40am
Reply
I would guess that the idle power on the R2 is higher than the draw of those 2 relays. Depending on the coil inside the relay and how fast it will switch depends on the power draw.
However, most general purpose relays draw between 1-2W when energized. So add the power for the remote electronics and you are probably at like 5W when everything is powered up.
The R2 is a good solution if you aren't really using it.
If you do want to go down the 12V path, I can suggest some relays from Digikey that work excellent and last for years (haven't had one fail yet). You will still need a diode, but I could do a crude drawing of how to wire everything up. However, I'm assuming your generator has a 12V "charging" circuit! If so, you can use that with no battery required.
Of course you could just use a battery to power everything on 12V, but it would eventually kill your battery if you didn't run the generator to top it up. I'm guessing you would get like 30 days before that happened.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 2 May 2025 03:20pm
Reply
Thanks Trav. I found out the R2 can be programmed to turn off (thereby killing the relays too) after a set time. Tested that yesterday. So I could set it to run until the water tank is full, then hit the remote from up at the cabin, that relay will kill the genny, then the R2 will shut off. Everything dead.
Kind of a fun experiment for mostly needless project. Beats shoveling dirt, my other project.
And I should see those other capacitors this weekend to try that.
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 2 May 2025 04:00pm
Reply
Quoting: paulz how long will the power box stay turned on with just the relays plugged in? I brought it back up, still turned on with the relays plugged in. Wattage on it shows zero
Maybe a latching type relay, some with latch so no power needed except to change their state, ie open or closed.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 5 May 2025 08:51am
Reply
Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Maybe a latching type relay, some with latch so no power needed except to change their state, ie open or closed.
Hmm, so hit the remote button while genny is running, flips the lever, kills the engine, kills all power? Sounds good, example?
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 6 May 2025 01:03pm
Reply
Tried my pals capacitors, no help. Same as the others, or none. Hit the remote, engine dies until it’s 110 shuts off, then engine sputters along.
So I’m back to the R2 power box that works. A lever relay sounds good, I’ll look.
|
|
| << . 1 . 2 . |
