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bobrok
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2011 18:27
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It seems as if I ask more questions and need more help from you nice forum members than I return in kind. Hopefully someday I can repay for all the good advice received.
Last week we closed up our camp for the winter. Closing up for us really means covering up the furniture and draining the water more than anything else. We try to get up during the winter but there is a huge disincentive for us because we are so used to having running water at our disposal that we don't relish the idea of water jugs and bag showers in the middle of winter (woosies such that we've become in our old age).
That being admitted to, does anyone have an idea how to supply running water from an outside storage tank to an off grid camp in below freezing weather without the the supply line freezing?
On the surface this seems a dumb question to me. But there are pretty resourceful people here and I thought it worth asking.
Many thanks for your thoughts and input.
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Just
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2011 21:47
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you would need underground water storage, with a 12 volt submersable pump , to a no freeze hydrent . to a underground line to the cabin , to a heated insulated" well" open to the cabin to to your present pluming system. sounds complicated but it is not .the most expensive part would be to bury the tank.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2011 22:09
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It was this precise reason we took the approach we did, with an underground cistern (325 gallons) and an indoor under the counter "ready use" water tank (15 gallons). Since the well would be likely 600 feet we use a friends well a few miles away and truck water to the cistern a hundred gallons at a time.
In the cabin the water is supplied to the fixtures from the 15 gallon tank. A pump moves water from the cistern to the indoor tank as required. In freezing weather that line has to be drained soon after use to prevent freezing up the entire outdoor supply system. A bother, but it means we can go there whenever we want which is every other weekend in winter plus a week between Christmas and New years.
Winterizing the interior plumbing is simple enough with the compressor so we can elect to use the sink plumbing with water heater if we want to.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2011 10:33
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Quoting: Just underground water storage
Quoting: MtnDon underground cistern
hmmm....food for thought. Would this have to be below frost line or just below surface and well insulated all around?
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2011 11:10
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It should be deep. Mine should have been deeper. When ours is 3/4 or more full there is danger of water freezing in the upper section. It will also freeze in the drop pipe from the hand pump down. So in freezing weather I have a ball valve and air fitting to push the air down the drop pipe far enough to prevent freezing in the pipe.
Second issue has been if the tank is quite full and the temperature cold enough a layer of ice forms quite solidly on the top of the water. After pumping a little water the pump doesn't work so well unless the ice is broken. No air in = no water out. So I have a port (screw in plug) in the cover that I can use to break the ice with a iron bar.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2011 13:49
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the tank should have lots of soil over or it can float out of the ground if it has little water in it and the ground is saturated by heavy rain , there is likely a chart somewere giving guidelines , but i 'm not sure,, if it were mine i would like at least 2 ft. maybe don could ask his friend ?
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bobrok
Member
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# Posted: 26 Oct 2011 15:55
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I figure these would be my options (we are on a lake so have a water supply):
1) underground tank. Still worried about the supply line and/or outdoor storage freezing and having to prime/power/drain the additional pump all the time.
2) pump water directly into the cabin. Big ol' storage barrel on the floor but could easily tie into the interior plumbing and heater and everything is protected. Advantage: can use the same 12v. demand pump to run the system as I do in the summer.
3) a friend has a small attached shed in which he keeps his barrels. He burns a regular interior propane lighting fixture to keep the shed heated and prevent freezing. A little insulation would help here also.
Disadvantage: fuel use, fire hazard, although I don't know how much fuel or how hot/serious the hazard would be w/o testing.
4) now that my generator is installed in the shed and I've determined that there is a constant heat output I suppose in theory as long as I am running the generator there would be enough heat to keep the water barrels from freezing, OR I could run a small bubbler like they do at boat docks to keep the water moving (wonder if this would negate the need for heat?)
Disadvantage: have to pretty much run the generator all the time or on a set schedule. Also have the supply line freezing issue from shed to cabin.
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