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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2012 20:52
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Wondering what experiences folks have had with 'large' water tanks 1000 gallon, and their resistance to freezing due to the large volume. I know there are a lot of variables, but if anyone who has experience with large tanks and freezing weather could share their experiences (failures and successes).
How many months of day-temps below freezing do you have? At what latitude?
- Insulation?
- Setting the tank a couple feet into the ground to take advantage of ground heat?
- burying the entire tank?
Thanks!
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 07:38
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Good question,Tom.I'm struggleing with the same problem.Iv'e got that 300 gallon tank on the poarch that Iv'e got to keep from freezing.I plan on insulating all around the tank with the exception of the side tward the cabin,There,I will have an open vent to the inside where it is heated.I just need to keep it above freezing.
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wakeslayer
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 15:35
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I have a 1200 gallon tank that is pretty much all underground. There is an access cover that is above ground. I would say the top is maybe 6-12 inches under. I have never had the tank freeze, and have used it 7 winters in a row. Unfortunately, somehow, my frostless hydrant froze last winter and we were unable to use the water for a 5 day visit. That sucked.
My understanding is that the frost line is 2 feet due to the insulating factor of all the snow we get. unlike Minnesota where it is 6 feet. my water lines, both up and down the hill (for gravity feed) are about 2 feet down according to the guy who buried them.
I am north of you, Tom, and east. Lat= 48 something. 3000 ft elev.
Mike
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 16:26
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Very good example (for me) similar latitude & elevation.
Yes getting the water out when it's frozen is another task.
THANKS!
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Hick
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 18:23
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I have a 275 gallon water tank that we just put in the ground. The tank is spring fed and about 2 feet under the ground. I'll find out this winter if it freezes. I hope that the moving water does not freeze.
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 19:02 - Edited by: TomChum
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Quoting: Hick I hope that the moving water does not freeze.
How do you move the water? Do you have separate inlet and outlets on opposite ends of the tank?
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Hick
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 21:57
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Yes. I have a 2 inch pipe that enters and a 2 inch for the overflow. The water moves about 3 gpm.
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AYP1909
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2012 18:05
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I see the Okanogan River freeze each winter and it is moving a large volume of water.
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2012 18:33
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Okanagan wouldn't freeze if it was underground.
Lots of variables, probably nomatter what it will freeze some years.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2012 14:03
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The manhole extension that is above ground can become a conduit for cold to invade the buried tank and cause some freezing.
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wakeslayer
Member
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2012 15:52
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My manhole cover is covered with snow pretty early in the winter, and as such, is insulated pretty well at that point.
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bldginspector
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# Posted: 17 Aug 2012 22:39
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I'm at 4000 ft in N California, and my 2500 gal. tank froze up almost completely last year during a cold snap, so I decided to insulate it. I got R13 fiberglass bats, the kind wrapped in plastic that contains the fiberglass. I then wrapped these horizontally around the tank, and held them in place with vertical 1/2" PVC pipe spaced every 18 inches and held in place with nylon cord.
Frost line in my area is 18 inches. But, if the ground is insulated, it will act as a heat source because the earth is a constant 45 or 50 degrees. So, I'm hoping the earth beneath the 8 foot diameter tank will provide enough heat to keep the water unfrozen, but we'll see.
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BoatMan
Member
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2012 20:53
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If the water at the top of the tank freezes to a decent thickness, and you pump or drain water out of the tank, the tank can collapse as it has no way to vent. I used to work with an outdoor 12,000 gal water tank that was a bit bent-up because someone forgot to climb up on top, open the hatch and break-up the surface ice before pumping water out of the tank. It partially collapsed.
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2012 22:20
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Another experience, thanks for posting.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2012 10:56
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Tom, fellow cabin member in my areas has just that. It may be 500 gallons. Its that opaque white. It needs to be out of the sun or you will get mold inside it. His is under his crawspace, its high on post (hillside) and he doesnt have an isue,. but its somewhat protected. He fills another tank in his truck, then drives up and pumps it to his under cabin tank.
You could build a special seperate tank house for it. Give ya another fun building project. 
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2012 12:20
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I have a 275 gallon square (translucent white) tank, but I cased it in plywood to keep it in the dark. It's above ground, also currently un-used..... My current plan is to put one underground to get the ground heat, but have to prevent collapse.
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 06:51
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I have a 2550 gallon tank above ground. No water in it yet, but I am hoping it will not be an issue in Texas. I will, however, make sure to add R19 insulation around it just in case.
Suggestions on pipes also?
Russ
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TheWildMan
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 10:37
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its all a matter of how cold does it get around it and for how long between thawing tewmperatures.
my 55 gallon barrels begin to freeze over the top first, but when the days are in the 30s and peak at 40, and down to teens at night they begin to freeze up more, if left in direct sunlight they warm up and last longer, in cloudy weather they freeze faster. the arctic the whole top of the ocian freezes solid.
of course you could spray paint the word AIG or Bank of America on it and the government will step in to stop it from freezing, especially if its too big to freeze, or they may send someone to bail it out.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 17:27
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Tom, can you plant it underground above your cabin, so the gravity and weight of the water colum would give you decent pressure? That would be a sweet set up! Especially if you could round up a spring to feed it.
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 20:56 - Edited by: TomChum
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Yes TMT thinking hard about it!! I have a hill and I have water running downhill to the cabin already. Don't have much water column though (17 feet). If I'm going to plant one, it should be bigger, like 500 or 1000, then it has more capacity + longer time to freeze.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 23:48
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How sweet would it be to have a small water fall to run a generator. Fully self contained.
You have a nice little backhoe. Whats the hold up?
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TomChum
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2012 23:54 - Edited by: TomChum
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Giving the plan some time to flush out the details. Also too many other projects, family, and work is getting in the way too, and now,,,,,, SNOW. Forecast about 10 inches over the next few days.
Dangit I needed a longer FALL.
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