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Anonymous
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 10:37
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1) would you insure your vehicle if you were the only person on your land in a motor vehicle and were not taking that vehicle off of your own property ? (a truck that never leaves the back 40 of the ranch so to speak)
2) (any moonshiners out there?) I was looking at growing potatoes, in a box. 25lbs per box, make ethanol from them. maybe some home brew vodka while i was at it  but there are no generators (factory built) for 100% ethanol use. any ideas?
3) power set up?
[house] <------- [transfer switch] <------ stanby full time 10kw gen.
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[battery bank] <-------- alt energy (solar/wind/hydro)
or is my thinking all wrong on this???
4) how does a person keep cool in summer (or other hot conditions) without ac? are there any power friendly ac units?
5) if you had a requirement of 10kw use per hr, and were going to be off grid what would be your top choice of alternate power?
6) what other costs are incurred by using a generator, specifically a full time stand by unit (industrial not the little portable part timers)? oil, filters, fuel .....?
7) difficulty in installing a satellite (tv and internet) yourself?
8) what is the best online library (digital) for books/audio books ?
9) easiest type of foundation to make/install without the use of any machinery?
oh and...
10) is there a limit to how big of a diesel tank you could have on your property? (i mean within reason not talking a 5000 gallon tank but 400 gallons?)
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neb
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 11:37
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I would not insure the pickup if it doesn't leave the property. Any lose would be ours.
As for moonshiners I can't help you but sounds interesting!
As far as how much diesel you can store I'm not sure but I can't imagine there would be any law for that. It sounds like the amount you would have would not be a problem. Farmers have that much and more on their farms.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 15:00 - Edited by: MtnDon
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1. I assume such vehicle falls in the classification of "cheap" and is not a late model powerstroke or whatever. If a cheapy then no insurance of any kind. If not a cheapy... then I wouldn't leave it there anyways.
2. I'm not goping to address the moonshine question online. Even for internal combustion engine use you can get yourself into trouble with a still. I wouldn't talk about it all myself. Besides it seems like a lot of effort to use it as engine fuel.
4. heat pump A/C and a building with superb insulation and attention to detail.
5.
Quoting: Anonymous 10kw use per hr
10 kw per hour That's crazy if off grid. IMO
9. Quoting: Anonymous 9) easiest type of foundation to make/install without the use of any machinery?
Easy is not always good.
Depends on where, climate, etc.....
10. There could be restrictions on amounts stored; depends on local rules. Most likely 400 gallons would be okay; but I'd check local rules. Also any issues your home/farm insurance underwriter may have. Then there is the question of long term storage stability of the fuel.
3. Quoting: Anonymous 3) power set up? [house] <------- [transfer switch] <------ stanby full time 10kw gen. / / [battery bank] <-------- alt energy (solar/wind/hydro)
This is totally off grid? No power grid tie in at all? If so.... You would incorporate an automatic transfer switch. One of the inputs would be from the generator and the other would be from the inverter. The output would go to the regular service panel. It would be setup with the normal house use coming from the inverter output. The generator side would automatically switch in after the generator starts up. Only one source, either generator or inverter would power the house at any point in time.
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 15:37
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I like the way you think. Even if I don't have any answers, I like the questions.
I have the most trouble with insurance, so that would go.
I would be quite worried about large amounts of diesel, as if you sprung a leak it could be a real disaster. I know large fuel tanks at the equipment dealers have to be in a concrete tub big enough to hold a spill of the whole tank.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 16:20
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Quoting: Anonymous 5) if you had a requirement of 10kw use per hr, and were going to be off grid what would be your top choice of alternate power?
My only choice would be a 20+ HP listeroid with a 20Kw generator head.
Assuming the "published" consumption rate of 1q/Kwh you will spend $7200/month on fuel. Doing the same thing with solar will require an array somewhere around 1.5 megawatts and cost about $4.5 million. If that is in your budget, I am available for private consultation at a very reasonable fee 
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 19:22
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So I (the OP) haven't been sitting on my butt waiting for answers. I've found a few of my own. figured I would add my own findings here.
2) moonshine question.. well even if it was strictly to make my own cheap ethanol fuel. Turns out where I am its illegal. There is no distinction between home brew and fuel source. I'm sad about this, I thought it would be fun little project to outfit a small generator for ethanol use and then work on producing my own "back up fuel" 100% self sustained.
3) MtnDon it would look more like
[house]
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[service panel]
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[inverter (ac/dc disconnects)] ----- generator
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[battery bank]------[charge controller]-----[solar/wind/hydro]
Don't worry I'm not planning on doing it myself. I'm just trying to get an idea of what it will look like.
5) wow.. i mean i know that a full time 10k standby generator costs between 6-12k, i figured the monthly fuel cost would be around 7k. I had no idea that for a solar array to cover the same power consumption it would be a 1.5 megawatt system. That is more than an eye opener.
so Part B) how hard is it to add to a solar system (or any alternative system for that matter). By add to it I mean start with a set number of solar panles and continue to add solar panels?
(and for curiousity sake how much space would a 1.5 megawatt solar field take up.)
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MJW
Member
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 19:58
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None of my business, of course, but I have to ask.
What do you do that requires 10kw of electricity an HOUR?
Holy crap!
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 20:02 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: Anonymous 2) moonshine question.. well even if it was strictly to make my own cheap ethanol fuel. Turns out where I am its illegal. There is no distinction between home brew and fuel source.
Have no idea where you are, after all you are anonymous
But if in the USA it is illegal anywhere. It's a federal law. There are methods that involve permit fees (large) and paperwork. IMO, not worth it.
You can own a still though, if it is used to distill things like water. Just don't get caught with alcohol dripping out of it.There is a 1 gallon size limit. IMO, it's all about collecting taxes. I don't see any reason why we should not be able to run a still when we have batches of wine, etc that didn't turn out quite right.
You can even legally buy or sell a still. The vendor must surrender the names of all purchasers to the BATF when asked; no warrants required.
When I was much younger a friend and I ran an alcohol burning drag bike. WEe used number drills to drill out the standard brass jets. (Alcohol contains less energy that gasoline, so you need to burn more.) There's no reason that if you had a ready source you could do some calculations and figure out the jet size. Experiment and take plug readings to fine tune the jet size. Should work with a generator. You would have to have a good quality control on the alcohol product.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 20:42
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Quoting: Anonymous I'm just trying to get an idea of what it will look like.
That looks more or less correct. Just how / where the generator gets connected in will vary. There will be a transfer switch involved so only the gen or the inverter(s) can supply power to the service panel. It can be dangerous to use home brewed shortcuts as the switching must be operator error proof, a fail safe.
Quoting: Anonymous Part B) how hard is it to add to a solar system (or any alternative system for that matter). By add to it I mean start with a set number of solar panels and continue to add solar panels?
Anything is possible. As PV modules would be added there would have to be additional charge controllers. A problem may arise with the storage batteries though. New batteries added to old batteries will act more like the old batteries than new ones by themselves. (new / old is usually taken to mean an age difference of more than 12 months).
Grid tie systems are easier to add PV panels to. Though there may be a need for additional grid tie inverters, there are no charge controllers or batteries involved.
BTW, currently PV panels put out approximately 14 -15 watts per square foot. So for 1.5 meg haul out the calculator... roughly 100,000 sq ft. At 43560 sq ft per acre... well that's a big array when you add space to walk between sets.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 21:55
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Quoting: Anonymous I had no idea that for a solar array to cover the same power consumption it would be a 1.5 megawatt system. That is more than an eye opener. so Part B) how hard is it to add to a solar system (or any alternative system for that matter). By add to it I mean start with a set number of solar panles and continue to add solar panels? (and for curiousity sake how much space would a 1.5 megawatt solar field take up.)
That number was based on a worst case scenario, a Northern location that may only get 2 or 3 hours of useable light every few days during the winter - as always, YMMV and you might need less than an acre of panels to do the job in a sunny climate
You also need to account for the space the batteries will require. Figure roughly 50 golf cart batteries per day of power required and you have an idea of the area required
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2012 00:01
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Unfortunately my little side product of an alcohol fueled generator is out of the question. Even in a remote location its not worth breaking the law over something so trivial that could end up having a large impact.
The 10kw per hr is probably a gross over exageration. Though one day it might actually be required. A host of house hold projects at the moment (many to help me pass the time and experiment with) require power tools, and not your rechargeable drill type. Other house hold things will require power but the machinery for building all sorts of fun things (especially metal work) can be a huge drain.
I will admit I did forget about the batteries when considering. I suppose in regards to my questions I'm thinking of trying to offset full time generator use (and cost) by using alternative power. Grid tied is simply not an option. Even getting the diesel to the property can be a nightmare especially come winter time. I figured adding a panel or 2 every month might help with slowing down the fuel consumption, and hopefully the trips to town.
Well, I'm in the north thats for sure. Canadian (home distilling hard alcohol and ethanol fuel is illegal here) so limit day light during winter. Often have snow/rain/clouds. 2-3 hrs of worthwhile sunlight might be accurate. Have to build a whole bunk house just for the batteries. Another project to add to the list of fun adventures to be had.
Well time to go work the nightshift. Hopefully I can get a little down time at the shop to draw up an idea or two.
Thanks
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2012 06:19
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Quoting: OwenChristensen I like the way you think. Even if I don't have any answers, I like the questions.
i second that.lots of good thoughts.love this!
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2012 08:55 - Edited by: OwenChristensen
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How about steam power? I know I have way too much downed wood. With steam you get the ability to generate electricity, you get heat, you clean up the woods, and you can power some things directly, like a saw mill.
Owen
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Brknarow
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# Posted: 25 Nov 2012 09:02
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As the moonshine isn't doable in your area, you may want to look into building a wood-gas generator. It seems to work pretty well, judging by the 'Youtube' videos. Although, unless I can buy one at the Wal-market', I, personally, won't be going that route. I don't really understand most things mechanical, and file a lot of it immediately into the category of magic.
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littlesalmon4
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2012 17:58
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Sounds like making your own bio diesel may be the way to go.
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larry
Member
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2012 21:40
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Quoting: MJW What do you do that requires 10kw of electricity an HOUR?
grow lots pots of ''tomatos". as for the ethanol, if you plan on using that in a gasoline engine you will have a great many problems. first, it will be very hard to start. second, you will have to rejet the carb to get the correct a/f ratio. and of coarse there is the rust issues in the fuel system to deal with. i forgot to mention, it would consume aprx 40% more fuel burning alcohol. use gas or diesel.
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