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Ejm
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 11:54
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Need some help picking out a propane hot water tank I'm thinking 30 gallons. I don't want tankless.
Let me know if anyone could recommend one or a good place to buy one
Thanks
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MJW
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 12:27
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We bought THIS ONE.
It is a 40 gallon but at the time, Lowe's didn't have the smaller one we wanted.
We absolutely LOVE it. Set on the lowest heat setting, we have all of the hot water we need. I have tried to run it out when we all take showers but have had no success as of yet.  I was both surprised and very happy.
It takes up a little more room than I wanted to allot to the water heater but otherwise we have zero complaints.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 13:02
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That's great... That is what I'm looking to do I want a short tank around 30 gallons. If anyone could recommend where to buy one in propane it would be greatly appreciated
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Brknarow
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 15:31
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I'm curious, would be able to turn those off and only turn them on when you need hot water? I'm using and electric water heater. I put it on a 30 amp switch and only turn it on for thirty minutes each day during the winter and every three days when the weather is warm. It's just me using it but I seem to have all the hot (on day three, warm) water I need for a daily shower and washing dishes. That would really save the bother of a tankless water heater once I finally go off grid if propane works similarly. Thanks.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 21:03
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That is exactly how I plan to use it. I hope it works as good as it does with the electric. It holds the heat that long in the winter? I am in NY the Adirondack's I would be more then happy if I get the same results.
Enjoy your weekend and thank you for the reply
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 22:16
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just curious, why not a tankless? and what is the bother with a tankless?
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Ejm
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2013 23:03
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It just sounds like a lot of headaches to me when I heard it could freeze and break the pipes from your vent that was the last straw for me. I was told and confirmed It with the manufacture that if you have a fireplace it will pull the air from the vent into the house and in the process it will freeze your pipes. They do have sealed combustion units that will prevent that, but they are very expensive inless I am not looking in the right place.
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 01:24
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Quoting: Ejm if you have a fireplace it will pull the air from the vent into the house and in the process it will freeze your pipes.
the way around that is to feed the wood burner with fresh outside air..... but i'm not a big fan of tankless anyways. they can be a pita for draining when being left in freezing weather. they can be a poor choice with very hard water like i have.
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Brknarow
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 06:33
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I live in South-Central Kentucky, and, though our winters can be really cold and bad, usually they aren't. I plan on adding an insulating blanket this winter though. Sometimes the warm water in the chilled air is a bit uncomfortable.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 06:51
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I was thinking the same thing with feeding air to the fire. I was just going to leave the window open a crack... The mfg Said there was still a 50/50 chance that it would pull from the vent and freeze the pipes. I didn't like the odds. I also have hard water that was just yet another reason why I didn't want tankless. If anyone has a better way of setting it up please let me know, but for now I am going to search for a 30 gallon hot water tank. Does anyone know any good websites to look at for them so far I just found them from Lowes?
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 09:12
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Quoting: Ejm I was thinking the same thing with feeding air to the fire. I was just going to leave the window open a crack...
i was thinking along the lines of using a sealed air inlet to the wood burner. a direct vent from exterior to the wood burner air linlet. That's what we have on our VC wood stove.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 09:26
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That's a great idea I didn't think of that... I am still worried about the hard water it could clog the pipes inside the tankless heater. I know they also have tankless heaters that are set up for that as well, but they are very expensive and you still have to buy the vent. The tank heater will be around 500.00 and the hard water will not hurt it as much as the tankless heater, it won't take much to clog the coils running inside that tankless heater.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 10:08
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I think some of the tankless manuals talk about a de-scaling procedure, but you don't want to bother with that on a regular basis. I plan to put a Bosch 330 tankless in a sealed closet/chase in my cabin, per a code requirement for a water heater in a sleeping area. This should avoid air pulled in thru the flu by the woodstove (which will have outside air anyway). The 330 has a standing pilot which I hope will assist in avoiding freezing while I'm there, but I still have to have a small air compressor to blow out the heater and copper lines when I leave.
I have to haul the propane up there myself so I'm trying to minimize use. How much do you use with your 40 gallon tank, MJW?
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Ejm
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 10:52
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Be careful with the Bosh... I was looking at them and even came close to buying the one that starts by the water pressure running threw the heater (great idea) you can't put them in a closet it has to be in a larger room because it needs air to work the only ones that will work are sealed combustion units like RInnia and those units are expensive and they don't even come with the vent that's extra, but it will solve your problem with the cold air comming in from the vent because it is a sealed unit and you could also stick it in the closet since it uses the outside air then the air in your cabin. I am planning on using the 40 gallon tank I didn't buy one yet just in case someone has a better idea. The way I plan on using it is... In the summer fire it up in the morning take showers and then shut the gas off with the 40 gallons waiting to be used, in the summer it should stay hot all day to use the sink if we need it, in the winter I am not sure how long it will last worse case senecio I will just turn it on when needed I was told it only takes 20 min to have it ready for showers. This tank will run off propane no electric required! If anyone has a better idea please let me know ASAP I have to order everything this week.
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 14:29
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Quoting: Ejm I am still worried about the hard water
that is a concern. I forgot I was worried about that too; another reason I didn't use a tankless. One of the main reasons I went with a storage tank though, is that we have a solar water collector / heater that is pumped through an exchange coil in the A) Smith water heater. Propane is shut off all summer and we have all the hot water we need.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 15:48
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Ejm- with any water heater installation in a closet, sealed or not, you have to provide outside combustion air. I neglected to mention that I will do that with one or two ducts that will lead to the outside to supply the air.
I also looked at the type that have a Piezo ignition that is operated by a turbine spun by water flow. Great idea, but they cost hundreds of dollars more. Also, as I said, I think the standing pilot may help ward off freezing in my case.
But in your case with the very hard water a tank is probably the best idea. And as ICC points out, you can hook it up to a rooftop solar water coil setup and store the water in it. Can't offer any advice on a tank type for you- good luck- let us know what happens.
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2013 16:33
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Here is a link to the one I installed in our cabin it was ~$260 shipped about two years ago. So far, so good we have about a year on a 100# LP tank supplying the cooking stove,ventless wall heater and water heater, the wall heater is only used 3 hours when we get there to help warms the place until the pellet stove takes over. We are there just about every weekend all year long.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Y0K6AI/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I also have a small compressor plumbed to blow lines when we leave, so far no freeze problems. Our well water is very good not hard at all.
We also have a Bosch in our home have about 10 years on it still going strong. I don't think I will ever go back to a tank style.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 08:09
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ICC... That sounds like a great idea with the heat exchange please post a picture if you don't mind. What make and size hot water tank do you have?
Bldginsp.... I agree i think the hard water is the biggest killer for me. I will defiantly keep you all posted and will post some pictures.
Jjlrw... That's great that the bosh is working well for you I really like them. Where are you located is it a cold zone? I am in the adirondacks, NY it is very cold here in the winter.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 08:35
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Jjlrw.... I looked at your link and my friend you have changed my mind for the price of that tankless heater I am going to roll the dice and try it! 271.00 and that includes the vent kit! Thank you so much, if it freezes or gets killed by the hard water it would be worth the gamble in my eyes to try it at this price!
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 10:26
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Not sure but I think de-scaling involves putting de-scaling chemical in the lines. If that is the case, I would suggest some special plumbing configuration at the instal to facilitate the operation. By adding a few valves and drain lines you can isolate the water heater for the de-scale procedure so you don't get the chemical in the rest of your plumbing system. Might make it easy enough to do on a regular basis.
Here's a link to one set of instructions for de-scaling:
http://www.speedclean.com/products/tankless_water_heater_maintenance.aspx
It says they make a descaler that is for potable water systems. Basically you run a mild acid through that dissolves the lime deposits.
I've heard that as the water heater element scales up gradually, it becomes less efficient transferring heat. So when your shower isn't as hot as it was, time to descale.....
Good luck
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 10:34
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I just read the whole link- it involves an expensive pump to run the descaler through the water heater- costs more than the heater. Has to be a less expensive, DIY solution. Anybody ever done this?
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MJW
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 11:10
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Quoting: bldginsp How much do you use with your 40 gallon tank, MJW?
Ours has been hooked up and running for about 2 months now with us living in our cabin for about 6 weeks now full time.
We run it, our full size propane stove and a propane wall heater and have used about 1/2 of a 100 lb tank so far. That is with using the stove quite a bit for cooking.
As I said, we use ours on the absolute lowest setting and have plenty of hot water for everything. I am happy with the propane usage so far.
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 11:59
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EMJ - The Bosch is in our house which is heated heated all winter, we have real hard water at home need a softer still faucets get corroded but so far the Bosch is doing well. The one in the Amazon link is in our cabin NLP of Michigan, when we leave in the winter I drain then blow all lines out. There are directions on how to drain the water heater but I was worried about all the twists and turns internal and had a compressor taking up space in the shed so decided to place it under the sink out of the way, I can still use it for other purposes as long as there is enough hose.
We really didn't have any room for a tank heater at the cabin, I mounted this one above the toilet so no wasted space.
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 12:20
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If you do decide to try the heater in the link here are a few tips I have learned over the past year or so.
If you still have a choice of water faucets for your shower and can get two separate valves, I would recommend that.
Reason is... I would like to set the temperature higher for the kitchen but when taking a shower with a mixing valve I find I have to turn the cold on more restricting the hot, when this happens less water is flowing through the heater so It heats up faster and once it reaches it max limit it will shut down. Max limit is ~170°, this unit does not auto regulate gas flow. If you have two values you could adjust water temp with the cold and not restrict the flow of hot water. I have found a happy medium but still feel the water for dishes could be a bit hotter.
Code may require a mixing value if your getting inspected.
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Ejm
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 09:48
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Jjllrrw... Could I mount this one in a closet or does it need air from a open space? Thanks for the tip for the shower I will return the one I have and get two separate valves, much appreciated!
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 10:32
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There were requirements in mounting but I don't remember the details off hand, maybe you can download a copy in the installation manual prior to purchase?
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