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SandyR
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2013 19:40
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Forgive me if this has been talked about already since I am a newbie here. What do you all do for water?
We are thinking about rain barrels to collect the water instead of a well on either end of the cabin. Our property sits uptop a hill overlooking the Genesee valley and we are sure that it will cost way too much to have a well dug. We would do all the washing with that collected rain water, and bring drinking water with us every time.
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mjmmessina
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2013 20:26 - Edited by: mjmmessina
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I set up a rain water cistern system for my remote mountainside cabin. It has worked great so far. I used a first flush sytem with screened gutter guard to filter the water. I then plumbed in a shurflo on demand pump to supply my kitchen sink and plan to plumb it to a tankless water heater for the shower in the future. Here is a pic of my set up and a link to explain the basic setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_994524&feature=iv&src_vid=lV_jw lvrgsE&v=VBTOyUkR2wg
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Just
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2013 21:46 - Edited by: Just
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WE are low tec .WE ADD 2 table spoons of bleech once a week . use it for every thing but drinking for that we boil it then use it. Taste great very clear .no one has got sick in 7 years of use.drain it in winter .
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redbeard
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2013 22:44
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check this guy out!
http://www.drillyourownwell.com/index.htm
I "know " some people that did this and it worked, depends on the soil I guess.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2013 23:54
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Just, in your diagram does that say 50lbs swimming pool sand?
Are you basically sand filtering the water?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 07:14
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Yes and yes works very well . grows a bit of moss on top of the sand but have never had anything in the tank .you could bury the tank for winter use .
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creeky
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 08:22
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Someone posted about the green stuff on sand. The germans call it Schmutzdecke or some such. it's good stuff that kills bad stuff and along with the sand filter makes the water potable. according to an UN study. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter
Nice pic/graphic Just. That's a nice system you have there.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 08:54
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It and a used Surflow pump make a complete system for under a 100$ .
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rayyy
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 15:05
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Sandy is that The Genesee river valley near Letchworth Park(New York State) your talking about?
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SandyR
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 08:25
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Yes it is 
We spent the day there yesterday spotting out where to put the cabin. Our three boys were in their glory dirtbiking for the day and my lab was just as happy to be scoping things out as well.
I will try to post some pics if I can figure it all out.
Thank you for all the water suggestions. Our neighbors dug a well that wasn't as deep as I thought it would be, about 110 feet, but I still want to save my money and do rain barrels instead.
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SandyR
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 08:27
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Quoting: redbeard check this guy out!http://www.drillyourownwell.com/index.htmI "know " some people that did this and it worked, depends on the soil I guess.
I bet my husband could do this. I'm going to show him this tonight.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 08:55
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I use collected rainwater too. I don't think I can add more than what mjmmessina wrote above about the basics of rainwater collection, except this link:
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/hq/pdf/texas_rw_harvestmanual_3rdedition.pdf
One note of caution about filtering- some of the worst bacteria have cysts that are so small they pass through most filters. They are called cryptosporidia and giardia, you've probably heard of them. I think the only type of filter that is fine enough to remove these is ceramic type water filters, which work very slowly, like two gallons overnight. So anyway filtering is a great idea but it won't purify the water for drinking necessarily.
Ultraviolet light water purification systems work well but cost three arms and a leg, require constant electricity, and frequent maintenance. Not for the remote cabin.
I do fine with rainwater for all washing, and I bring in my drinking water in 5 gallon marine-type water carriers.
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SandyR
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 13:34
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I wouldn't use the collected water for anything but washing and cleaning. I think I can just bring the drinking water for our family of 5 easily with no problem.
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Gregjman
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 17:39
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I keep like 5 cases of bottled water in my shed at all times and never bring any water with me anymore. We collect 110 gallons of rain. I add a little bleach and have hidden the barrels from the sun with treated fence panels.
Works fine.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 07:34
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Quoting: bldginsp They are called cryptosporidia and giardia, you've probably heard of them. I think the only type of filter that is fine enough to remove these is ceramic type water filters, which work very slowly, like two gallons overnight.
Agree completely about the dangers of these spores, especially if you are taking your water from a lake or pond (giardia - beaver fever). It is a surprise to some that chlorine is not especially effective against these particular spores and boiling or a 1 micron or smaller filter is the best. I've talked to some people who think the standard household carbon filter is protecting them!
There are a number of filters available that will handle these (and more) with a very usable flow rate. The one I use (not the only product) is a Sawyer Point Zero Two. This .02 micron model is designed to handle viruses - the more standard model is the PointOne which, at .1 micron size, is suitable for all bacteria and spores. They use a glass filament system so the size is absolute - anything bigger does not get through. They can be used with a gravity feed, pump or squeeze bag (for hiking). They claim over 500 gallons a day with a gravity system (can't validate that) or connect to a pump or faucet. In my case I have it added to the water system with a foot pump and a separate single faucet and we use it to provide water to wash teeth etc. My wife will not drink from it yet! This, despite the fact that last year I put some very dirty water through it (won't describe where it came from) and sent the water out for testing - no issues with it. With a small pump it will provide on-demand safe water.
Downside? Treat it gently, don't let it freeze, could use a secondary carbon filter for taste, metals etc. Plus side - no replacement filters (back-wash to clean), decent flow rate, no power needed.
Here is some CDC info CDC Information
and here is the sawyer site Sawyer
Although I may sound like I work for them I don't - just the system that I selected after my research so most familiar with it.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 08:44 - Edited by: bldginsp
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Hello Raz-
The Sawyer looks very effective. Looks like they only make a portable style unit that removes viruses, which in a cabin would have to be set up in a fashion for use at the kitchen sink or whatever.
Here's a link to the Berkey ceramic filter systems, which are not portable, and need some time to filter the water:
http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-water-filters/
These, like the Sawyer, claim to get the small viruses out. Apparently the ceramic filters can't be backwashed and reused, a big advantage of the Sawyer. Because the Sawyer has a high rate of water flow, you don't need to store water, it can be filtered on demand. Stored water is subject to contamination after filtration, but shouldn't be a big issue if you are careful.
I'd like to see a Sawyer type filter in a Berkey type stainless container that I can easily mount above my sink. Somehow, mounting a portable-type plastic bag on the wall by the sink doesn't instill the confidence that a stainless tank does, but that's just me.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 09:21
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Quoting: bldginsp I'd like to see a Sawyer type filter in a Berkey type stainless containe
Understand but the Berkey is a different beast (storage and filter in one) while the Sawyer is primarily a filter with a bunch of options for how to use it (the squeeze bags are for hiking - not something to hang above your sink). They offer some pre-plumbed setups (stupid prices) which show some examples of how to fit the filter directly into the plumbing. They also have a "bucket kit" although this is nothing you could not do your self. Mine is under the cabinet connected (with quick disconnects for removal in winter and to back wash) through a marine manual foot pump. Next year I may connect it in-line with the main electric pump and faucet (and add a carbon pre-filter for taste) - depends if my wife eventually agrees that it is drinkable. The PointOne has a better flow rate and would work even better built in.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 14:37
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I think the point 1 model is not effective against small virus cysts. The point zero two model is, but it doesn't come in the permanent setup. Not to be too critical, it looks like good option, I just want to think about convenience of use as much as effectiveness of purification. Thanks for pointing out the Sawyer.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 18:47
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Isn't google wonderful - now i'm getting ads for Berkey filters in the browser. Just a minor clarification - cryptosporidia and giardia are protozoa not viruses. Generally .3 microns provides effective filtration for these so the PointOne is effective. The .02 will also protect against the most common virus infections, however, unless you are getting your water from a really bad source, this is likely overkill. Both models are the same form factor and can be connected directly into the lines (ignoring the various kits and packages).
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2013 21:54
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Sounds good Raz. Protozoa or virus, I don't want any of that s**t in my stomach.....
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2013 12:47
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Quoting: bldginsp They are called cryptosporidia and giardia
Hunters know it as "beaver fever". Not good. A beaver pond upsteam, its almost going to have this giardia down stream. Same goes for free ranging cows, other wildlife.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2013 17:11
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My neighbor hikes the back country following utility lines looking for leaning trees. He used to drink from the streams. Second time he got sick he said heck with this and carries his own water now. Beaver fever, duck yuck, deer smear, wild cat scat, call it what you will. Stomach illness is the worst.
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